Triangle X Ranch; Grand Teton National Park]]> Dude ranches--Wyoming--Jackson Hole]]> Westrup, Rebekah, 1989-]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> image/jpeg]]> 595974 Bytes]]> eng]]> Image; StillImage]]> Triangle X Ranch, Grand Teton National Park, Wyoming]]> 21st century; 2010-2019]]> Outdoor Products; Catalog; Trigon;]]> Trigon]]> Utah State University Libraries]]> Digital Initiatives Unit, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Christianity; Religion;]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Logan (Utah); Cache County (Utah); Utah; United States;]]> 1900-1909; 20th century;]]> Religion; Main Street; Logan, Utah]]> Digital Initiatives Unit, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Logan, Utah]]> Christianity; Religion; Methodist church buildings;]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Logan (Utah); Cache County (Utah); Utah; United States;]]> 1860-1869; 20th century;]]> Legends;]]> legend-tripping;]]> By Ryan Robb Oliver
Staff writer

Charges were filed this morning against the three watchmen accused of terrorizing two groups of trespassers at St. Anne’s Retreat on Oct. 10.

By noon, Cache County Attorney Scott Wyatt also announced trespassing charges against the 38 juveniles and young adults were dropped.

He said the decision to drop the charges came fr om the property owners, who were sympathetic to the what [sic] the trespassers said happened to them Friday at the hands of the watchmen.

John Jeppson, Arthur Peasnall and Jeppson’s son-in-law, Christopher Doerr, have each been charged with six counts of aggravated assault.

Aggravated assault is a third degree felony, and each count is punishable by up to five years in jail.

“the basis for the charges is that the actions alleged far exceeded the authority granted to the gunmen by state law and the property owners,” said Wyatt, who filed this morning’s charges.

On Oct. 10, 38 teen-agers and young adults were roped around the neck, handcuffed and forced to kneel in the retreat’s swimming pool when they were captured by the three shotgun wielding men for trespassing on the property. The trespassers claimed the men fired shotguns near them, and that the men threatened to kill them. One teen-ager said he was knocked unconscious and another claimed she was fondled.

Cache County Sheriff Lynn Nelson said he will be putting together a warrant for the arrest of the three men today. He said he didn’t yet know when or where the men would be arrested, but he said there’s a possibility they may turn themselves in.

Commentary
‘…the stuff heroes are made of’

Editor’s note: Jake Jeppson [Jeppsen], older brother of John Jeppson [Jeppsen], the man accused of terrorizing Cache Valley teen-agers in two incidents at the former St. Anne’s retreat in Logan Canyon, has written the following commentary in defense of his brother. Jake Jeppson [Jeppsen] is a Brigham City resident employed at the Utah State University physical plant. His book of cowboy prose and poetry, “Give My Love to the Children,” is on file at USU Special Collections.

By Jake Jeppson

I am writing this as an answer to the recent articles and reports in the local media concerning my brother, John Jeppsen, who is the lead watchman at St. Anne’s Retreat.

I feel it’s necessary to bring out some facts that have not been mentioned, and to say something about circumstances involved.

1. It is my understanding that the shotgun shells which John had were loaded with rock salt. Years ago these were used for raiders of melon patches, hen houses, private outhouses or stray dogs. These to sting severely, not kill.

2. A great to-do was made about the fellow that was knocked unconscious. Nothing is said about him coming up behind John to jump him during the arrests. John was an Airborne Ranger in Europe. Rangers are one of three groups of America’s finest fighting men. John was not, nor is he, a Vietnam vet (with mental and emotional problems), as earlier articles implied.

3. Emotions? Name me as any man anywhere who would not be wound tight while arresting 38 people as big as himself in the darkness or poor light, alone, in Logan Canyon at that time of day? Especially in view of the monetary value of property damage at the site and the later made threats which I know were made.

4. Nothing has been said about the threats made against John; i.e. “We’re coming back to get you.”

5. There are inconsistencies in the young people’s stories. The Herald Journal stories say the trespassers were arrested just inside the gate. An article in the Statesman quotes a young man as saying “just as he jumped down into the empty pool.” Another was that the fellow who was knocked out was struck with a billy club. That man was struck with a bullstroke (military term), from the shotgun butt as he attempted to jump on John’s back. In other words, John did his job (a tough one) and got the attacker before he could get him.

6. The rope and knots are a tool to contain and retain prisoners as taught to the Airborne Rangers. The knot is not a “slip-knot” nor a “hangman’s knot” as implied. It is a knot like the “bowline” used to tie boats or tie a horse “expressly) because the knot will not slip. The loop is tied loosely or semi-loosely as needed to hold.

7. The owner of the property says he was “allowing John to stay there.” As if John was some homeless poor soul. John may have been staying there as part of their agreement, but he has a beautiful wife who is a fine woman, with whom he lives and they live with and care for our mother who is convalescing from a broken hip and joint replacement. The home they are living in is a very neat, clean and modern brick home in Providence with several bedrooms.

Now about the vandalism which is occurring all over our area. I was on top of Logan Canyon yesterday and stopped to use the public restrooms near Peter Sinks. On the older building the door had been totally ripped off and destroyed. There were unspeakable things which had been done inside and outside the restrooms. This is common all over now.

Several years ago there was a movie made called Walking Tall. It was a true story about a sheriff down south who was man enough to take on a corrupt system and individuals with his famous pick handle. He became a national hero. Two or three movies were made about his life.

Then there are the Rooster Cogburns and Big Jake’s of John Wayne. We cheer these men, yet seek to destroy a man who is striving to do his job and enforce the right of property owners to have their property be secure.

In Salt Lake City yesterday, a police officer was acquitted for shooting a dog while he was jogging. The owners were allowing it to run loose and get in trouble. Needless to say isn’t it lucky we don’t have such a law for kids and parents who cannot control their children and are embarrassed at the stunts they pull. I know, I have six of my own, two step-children and 22 grandchildren. Some of the finest people I know are also sharing this problem.

A remark was made in a commentary about the legends of St. Anne’s retreat, that a certain prominent attorney said he used to go up there when he was a kid, too. I don’t care if it was Thomas Jefferson, would that make breaking the law right? Or trespassing/vandalism?

John may not have done everything perfect, but who could under such conditions.

In my mind, John is a fine man, made of the stuff heroes are made of. If you think not-you try arresting 30 hell-raising young adults in the dark, lonely, middle of the night.]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> legends (folk tales);]]> application/pdf;]]> 1157046 Bytes]]> eng]]> Text;]]> Logan Canyon (Utah); Cache County (Utah); United States;]]> 1990-1999; 20th century;]]> The Virgin Suicides]]> Paramount Classics]]> Business; Main Street; Logan, Utah; Transportation; Railroad]]> Digital Initiatives Unit, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Logan, Utah]]> Gran viento]]> flickr.com]]> Transportation; Automobiles;]]> Andrus, Dolph, 1890-1981;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv26892]]> Black-and-white photograph;]]> image/jpeg]]> 217411 Bytes]]> eng;]]> Image;StillImage;]]> San Juan County (Utah); Utah; United States;]]> Transportation; Automobiles;]]> Andrus, Dolph, 1890-1981;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv26892]]> Black-and-white photograph;]]> image/jpeg]]> 256498 Bytes]]> eng;]]> Image;StillImage;]]> San Juan County (Utah); Utah; United States;]]> Triangle X; Department of Interior, Fish and Wildlife Services]]> Dude ranches--Wyoming--Jackson Hole]]> Turner, John Freeland]]> Shankar, Guha]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> Kruesi, Margaret, 1953; Williams, Randy, 1961]]> image/jpeg]]> 5140013 Bytes]]> eng]]> Image; StillImage]]> John Freeland Turner's home in Jackson, WY]]> 21st century; 2010-2019]]> ]]> Religious; Arbaeen Walk; South Gate; Los Angeles, California
]]> ]]> Ehsan Estiri
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]]> ]]> ]]> Los Angeles, California ]]> Dirt roads]]> Express highways]]> Transportation]]> Highway planning]]> Roads--Design and construction]]> Trucks]]> Utah. State Road Commission]]> Utah. State Department of Highways]]> Utah. Department of Transportation]]> United States--Utah--Salt Lake City]]> Salt Lake City]]> Utah. Department of Transportation]]> Utah. Department of Transportation (Publisher--original)]]> Utah. State Archives and Records Service (Publisher--digital)]]> https://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en]]> Automobiles]]> Antique and classic cars]]> Utah Power and Light Company]]> Ford Model T automobile]]> Dirt roads]]> Salt Lake City]]> Utah Power and Light Company]]> Utah Power and Light Company (Publisher-- original)]]> University of Utah, Marriott Library (Publisher--digital)]]> https://rightsstatements.org/page/NoC-US/1.0/?language=en]]> True Aggie Night; Utah State University ]]> Gideon Oakes]]> Utah State University Libraries]]> 1969 "True Grit" movie poster ]]> Hadley Paul Garland]]> advertising, publicity, film, movie, True Grit, Joel Coen, Ethan Coen, Coen brothers, Hailee Steinfeld, Jeff Bridges, Matt Damon, Josh Brolin, coming of age, Western]]> ,JPG]]> Movie poster]]> trump, hair, funny]]> unknown]]> Brigham Young College (Logan, Utah)--Trustees--Portraits;]]> Brigham Young College (Logan, Utah);]]> Brigham Young College (Logan, Utah);]]> Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> application/pdf;]]> 524005 Bytes]]> eng]]> Text]]> Logan, Cache County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5777544/]]> 1890-1899; 19th century;]]> ]]> Outdoor Product; Catalog; TSL]]> TSL]]> Utah State University Libraries]]> Digital Initiatives Unit, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Outdoor Products; Catalog; TUA Ski;]]> TUA Ski]]> Utah State University Libraries]]> Digital Initiatives Unit, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Automobiles; Navajo children--Education; Navajo Indians--Arizona--Social life and customs--20th century;]]> Hopkins, William H., 1873-1958;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Andrus, Dolph, 1890-1981;]]> http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv21139]]> Black-and-white photograph;]]> image/jpeg]]> 395713 Bytes]]> eng]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Tuba City (Arizona); Coconino County (Arizona); Arizona; United States;]]> Automobiles; Navajo children--Education; Navajo Indians--Arizona--Social life and customs--20th century;]]> Hopkins, William H., 1873-1958;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Andrus, Dolph, 1890-1981;]]> http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv21139]]> Black-and-white photograph;]]> image/jpeg]]> 429166 Bytes]]> eng]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Tuba City (Arizona); Coconino County (Arizona); Arizona; United States;]]> Horses; Dude ranch]]> Dude ranches--Wyoming--Jackson Hole; Horses]]> Musso, Hallie, 1997-]]> Cushenberry, Jessica, 1992-]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> Setterberg, Elizabeth, 1989-]]> image/jpeg]]> 7420946 Bytes]]> eng]]> Image; StillImage]]> Triangle X Ranch, Grand Tetons National Park]]> Museum Triangle X Ranch]]> 21st century; 2010-2019]]> Tun Lay--Photographs;]]> Tun Lay, 1958-]]> Gill, Meagan]]> Chit Moe]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Hanks, Bethany]]> Photographs;]]> image/jpeg;]]> 811090 Bytes]]> eng; kar]]> Image; Still Image;]]> Karen State; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Salt Lake Couty, Utah; United States; Logan, Cache Valley, Utah, United States;]]> Tun Lay--Photographs;]]> Tun Lay, 1958-]]> Gill, Meagan]]> Chit Moe]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Hanks, Bethany]]> Photographs;]]> image/jpeg;]]> 948281 Bytes]]> eng; kar]]> Image; Still Image;]]> Karen State; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Salt Lake Couty, Utah; United States; Logan, Cache Valley, Utah, United States;]]> Tun Lay--Photographs;]]> Tun Lay, 1958-]]> Gill, Meagan]]> Chit Moe]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Hanks, Bethany]]> Photographs;]]> image/jpeg;]]> 702741 Bytes]]> eng; kar]]> Image; Still Image;]]> Karen State; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Salt Lake Couty, Utah; United States; Logan, Cache Valley, Utah, United States;]]> Refugees, families, Immigration & culture, social justice]]> Tun Lay]]> Refugees, families, Immigration & culture, social justice]]> Tun Lay]]> Refugees, families, Immigration & culture, social justice]]> Valley
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CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET
Interviewee: Tun Lay
Present: Tun Lay, Bethany Hanks, Chit Moe, Wes Van de Water, Meagan Gill
Place of Interview: Tun Lay’s home in Logan, Utah
Date of Interview: May 16, 2015
Language(s): Pwo Karen; English
Translation:
Interviewer: Bethany Hanks
Interpreter: Chit Moe
Recordist: Wes Van de Water
Photographer: Meagan Gill
Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL
broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone
Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe with PowerPlayer foot pedal.
Transcribed by: Susan Gross, May 17, 2015
Transcript Proofed by: Bethany Hanks, May 18, 2015
Brief Description of Contents: Tun Lay describes his life as a Karen refugee. He talks about
his life in Burma during war, and the hardships placed on him by the Burmese military in trying
to earn a living as a farmer. He explains how he escaped from Burma to Thailand refugee camps,
and how he eventual brought his wife and child to live with him there. Tun Lay recounts his
experiences in various refugee camps (including fleeing villages burned by Burmese military, his
religious path, and family), and also how he eventually came to the United States (first Salt Lake
City, Utah; followed by Logan, Utah). He discusses how he came to live in Cache Valley, Utah,
and how he has adjusted to living and working in the United States.
Reference: BH = Bethany Hanks
BHI = Bethany Hanks’ words interpreted by translator
TL = Tun Lay
TLI = Tun Lay’s words interpreted by translator
WV = Wes Van de Water
WVI = Wes Van de Water’s words interpreted by translator
MG = Meagan Gill
MGI = Meagan Gill’s words interpreted by translator
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NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and false starts and
stops in conversations are not included in transcribed. All additions to transcript are noted with
brackets.
TAPE TRANSCRIPTION
[00:01]
BH: Okay. Today is May 16, 2015, and this is Bethany Hanks with Wes Van de Water and
Meagan Gill. We are students at Utah State University, and we are working on a project
called “Voices: Refugees in Cache Valley.” Right now we are visiting Tun Lay in his
home, in Logan, Utah, and Chit Moe is our translator.
So, first of all thank you, Tun Lay, for letting us come here into your home.
BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.]
BH: First, I would like to know what is your full name, and your birth year?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: My name is Tun Lay and I was born in 1958.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Oh, 1954. I’m sorry, 1954.
BH: Okay. Thank you.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And May 28th, 1954.
BH: Okay, thank you. And what languages do you speak?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: He speaks Karen, Pwo Karen and Burmese, but right now we are speaking Pwo Karen.
BH: Okay; so not Burmese?
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TLI: No, it’s not Burmese.
BH: Okay; very cool. Can you tell me about your family?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Yes.
BH: So, do you have other family members?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: He has a family here, but not relatives.
BH: Oh, okay. So you have family here, but not relatives? So like you have a brother and
sister, or I don’t know if I quite understand?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: I have a wife [laughs] –
BH: Oh, okay.
TLI: And three children – one is married (and he is in Arizona), and the other two live with
me.
BH: Wow, so they live here?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Yes, two live with him, and the other one is in Arizona.
BH: Okay. Were your children – were they born here?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
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TLI: No, none.
BH: None? Where did you live before?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Before I was in Burma in the city called Tun Aung; the name of the city is Tun Aung.
[Translator speaking to interviewer] Should I spell it?
BH: Yeah, how do you spell that?
TLI: Tun Aung (I think): T-U-N A-U-N-G. Tun Aung.
[Translator speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: P-U, actually. It’s P-U.
BH: P-U-N?
TLI: No, just P-U.
BH: Oh, just P-U?
[04:02]
TLI: Pu Aung.
BH: Pu Aung.
TLI: That’s the name of the city.
BH: Wow. Can you tell me a little about this city?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Ever since I was born in that city, I grew up; when I got old I married to my wife, then
we moved to Thailand and now we’re in America. But I can tell you step by step of the
process of what I’ve been through.
BH: I would love to hear, step by step, the process.
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BHI: [Repeating remark in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Yeah, he is going to explain it step by step.
BH: Okay.
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So when I got married I had one kid.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So my occupation was being a farmer and raising cows and other animals.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Me living in the United States, there are difficulties here.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Oh, it’s still in Burma, actually (my mistake).
BH: In Burma?
TLI: Yeah. So we faced difficulties in Pu Aung, in Burma.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So in Burma there are difficulties, meaning we were in fear of Burmese military, and we
couldn’t do work freely.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So between Burmese military and the Karen military, they were in war and we were
really scared.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So we couldn’t do our work when there was a war because the Burmese military would
come to our village and take us as porters – you know, forcing us to do work for them.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
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TLI: So if they couldn’t find us, they would go to our work place and kind of drag us to where
they wanted to take us; if not, they would come at night and just force us – just drag us
out of our house.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Living there was really difficult, and I couldn’t do any work; so moving around and I
ended up in Thailand.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: I was just following strangers, being stranded, and that’s how I got to Thailand.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So living in Thailand many, many years I have learned and found the U.N., which is a
great organization which helps the refugees: they give food and shelter.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
[08:39]
TLI: So from what I see from what I learned, I wanted my wife to come to Thailand in a
refugee camp. So I started telling her to do the same process, you know, asking strangers
for a ride, being stranded; and that’s how she also got to a Thailand refugee camp.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So living there many, many years I had two children.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So living there for many, many years again, we were given like a photo ID for living in a
refugee camp (like a permanent resident thing).
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: [Responding to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So after a few years we learned that the UN were telling people that they could go to
other countries (like United States, Australia). And then they told us that we had to fill
out an application, and we did it.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
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TLI: So many people in a refugee camp came to such other countries, and I was also one of
them.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So in June it will be –
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: In June 11th of this year it will be –
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: It will be seven years of my family living in Utah, in the United States.
BH: Wow.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Living here is very, very peaceful, happy for me and my family; I have work, I have
food, I mean, there is nothing to worry about (like being free, peaceful), you know, being
free.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: I am very, very happy, and I am very glad I am in this state and in this country.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So everything I was born living in Burma was really difficult, and there was many
difficulties; and there are many, many things that I have faced that I just can’t talk about
it all at the same time because there are just many, many difficulties.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And my family and I are very, very thankful to the UN, which they provided us food and
shelter; we are very, very thankful to them.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Yeah, being in Utah is the same thing: many people help us out, you know, getting us a
house (for example), and yeah –
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
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TLI: So when I first came to the United States I was in Salt Lake for a year, and now I am in
Logan for almost six years.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
[12:25]
TLI: And I am very happy for being in Logan, and I have a job in JBS, and I have worked
there for almost seven years.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Just like that.
BH: Wow. So you mentioned going from Burma to Thailand, and it sounds like you would
take rides from strangers. Can you describe a little bit more about maybe what the
journey was like going from Burma to Thailand?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So number one key is between Burma and Thailand, there were a lot of people who were
like transporter (I would say): they would do business across each country –
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Okay, some people would hire other people – I mean, some people would go to Thailand,
buy a lot of food, and then they would hire people and take it back to Burma and sell it
there.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: I was one of the people who got hired. I was carrying bags, you know, back and forth and
that’s how I got to Thailand.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And when I got to Thailand I saw Thai people, you know, they were hiring people to do
work, and I was one of the workers in there as well.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So from there, working there for a few months – as I was crossing from Thailand to
Burma, I saw a refugee camp (which I also heard about it), and that’s when I started
going to the refugee camp asking people, maybe to see if there is anyone I know, and
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people were telling me that, “It’s better here,” you know, “we have food; we are stuffed.
You should come and live over here.”
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And that’s when I tell my wife and my child to also come up to the refugee camp to live
with me.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And living there many, many years – that’s when that organization, they were you know,
taking applications; and that’s how I got here.
BH: Okay; wow. After you fill out an application, is it difficult to get into the camp – the
refugee camp?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
[16:16]
TLI: So there was no application to get to the refugee camp. What you do is that you go talk to
– so in the refugee camp there is a certain section where they put you in – you just go talk
to the leader, just talk to him or her, and then he would like take you to another person
who is like the leader for the whole camp. And then that’s when you started telling your
story, and that’s when they can tell whether you’re lying, or whether you’re telling the
truth and how difficult your life was; and that’s how they accept me to live in the camp.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So why they were asking me questions, you know, how my life was, I have to tell the
truth and later on they would have to, you know, figure out whether that’s the truth or
not. If it’s true, then they let me live in there; if not, then no.
BH: Okay. Was it difficult for your wife and your child to also come over?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: [Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
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TLI: There was no difficulty for my wife and child to come to the refugee camp because I was
already there, and all I had to do was tell the leader – tell him that my wife is coming, and
he would be like, “Okay, that’s fine.” But the difficulty was for my wife and child to get
to the refugee camp – that was one of the difficulties. Because fortunately my wife speaks
Burmese, so sometimes she would speak in Burmese and people would think, “Oh, she’s
Burmese, just let her go.” And sometimes the military would think that, “Oh, this is a
very pitiful family, just let them go.” And that’s how they got to the refugee camp.
BH: Wow.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
[Tun Lay’s daughter and one of his sons enter the room. His daughter greets everyone.]
BH: Hello.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So for me and my family, on my way to the refugee camp, we have met with Karen
military, and they were very nice, very generous; they helped us –
[Tun Lay’s daughter drops something on the floor; she apologizes.]
TLI: You know, they help us get to another place and they were really nice.
BH: Okay. So was it dangerous at all – that trip from Burma to Thailand? I’m just wondering
if – because it sounds like you rely a lot on strangers – is that difficult to do, is that scary?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
[19:56]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So one thing is that once you reach the border between Burma and Thailand, it’s easier –
you can just walk to the refugee camp with nothing to worry about.
BH: Okay.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Once you reach Thailand border – you can either walk there or take a ride from the Thai
military, and you can just pay them $5 or $10.
BH: Wow. So can you describe for me a little what your surroundings were in the refugee
camp – like what it looked like?
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BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So when I was in the refugee camp there was a city called Kue Bong [??] (I don’t know
how to spell that), but Kue Bong –
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So you know, like I said, there was a city really close to the refugee camp; in that camp –
we lived there for a few years, and then Burmese military were coming and they burned
the whole village down.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And then we started, after the Burmese military were coming to burn our refugee camp,
we moved to another camp, which is called –
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: [Speaking to the interviewee in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Kue Bong was the first refugee camp that I was in, and after a few years the Burmese
military were coming, burned down the village; and then I got to another town which is
called –
[Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Kwe Ka Lu [??]
TL: Kwe Ka Lu
TLI: Kwe Ka Lu. K-something. Got it?
BH: Kwe Ka Lu
TLI: Um-hmm.
[Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
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TLI: And living there for one and a half years, the Burmese military were there again, and they
burned the village down and we started –
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So after when the Burmese military were coming and, you know, burning the village
down we got help from the UN. They took us over the mountains, and we started living
on a mountain – it’s called Umpium camp right now. A lot of Karen people were there as
well; it is on a mountain.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So I can still remember the year that I got to the Umpium camp – it was 1999.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So starting from 1999, I lived in the Umpium camp all the way until 2008; and that’s
when I started coming to the United States.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: June 11th, 2008, was the date I departed from the refugee camp.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And I lived in Salt Lake for one year, and now I’m here in Logan for six years.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Yep, that’s pretty much it.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Living here is really a good thing for me, you know; you can go anywhere you want, you
have a job. I’m really happy.
[24:40]
BH: That’s good. Let’s see – so can you tell me a little about your first months here, in the
United States; and maybe the problems and the difficulties, but maybe also the good
things that you saw?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
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TLI: When I first arrived in the United States my family, we were put in a house (like in an
apartment), and people were saying, “Later on, if you guys cannot pay the rent, you guys
will be kicked out.” And we were really worried, you know, and that was one of the fears
that we had in our first month. And after a few months we had to do like a community
service at CCS (in Salt Lake) where we had to go and give food to the people (I think
they are the homeless, I think that’s the service). And after a few months I heard about
the JBS and I came here, got a job, and that’s when I asked my family to move here.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: [Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So you know, in that first month there wasn’t a lot to do; but on the second month, like I
said, I had to do service at CCS (it was fun), and I had to do it two days a week, and the
other two days was me going to school to learn English.
[27:59]
BH: Wow. So when you came to the United States, did you have any prior knowledge of
English?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: No, not at all; my wife, my children – nobody knows English.
BH: Wow.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And I only know how to read Burmese, specifically.
BH: Wow. So did that make it difficult to interact with people when you first moved here?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: It wasn’t really difficult because I was speaking with other Karen communities; and if I
wanted to talk to an English speaker we had it translated.
BH: Okay.
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TLI: So there wasn’t any difficulties.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So if we wanted to go buy groceries, we would ask someone who came here before us,
you know, who has a car – and we would ask them to take us to buy food, groceries.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: [Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So if we needed help with anything we would go to IRC (it’s also in Salt Lake) and they
have translators over there, you know; they have people that can help you with what you
need.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Like I said, if we need help we can go to IRC, CCS or another place – it’s called DWS
(it’s Department of Workforce Services); and they also have translators over there, you
know. We would like ask someone who came before us to take us over there, or
sometimes DWS will come and pick us up personally.
BH: Wow.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So everybody surrounding me here – like all the Americans – they were really nice; they
helped us in many ways.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And that is why I am living here really happy, my family is really happy.
BH: That’s good.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
BH: So the reason why you moved to Logan was to work at JBS?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
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TLI: Yes, that is correct.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So you know, when I was hired at JBS I worked there for one year. And then after that I
went back to Salt Lake and I told my family to move with me to Logan, in this apartment
(this house), and I haven’t moved ever since.
BH: Wow. So I wonder if you could describe for me sort of the differences in food? Maybe
some things that you used to eat in Burma, that maybe you can’t find here, or maybe you
can? Maybe just a little bit about the food of your culture.
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So I have no problem eating American food here – it’s better than what I used to eat back
there.
BH: Okay.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Yeah, there are more food here than back in the refugee camp.
BH: So what kind of food was available in the refugee camp?
[33:06]
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: There are many, many foods. One is rice – they gave us oil, and beans, and –
[Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And peppers – chili; yeah, a lot of food – like food that is very sufficient for each family.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: They gave us food like once a month.
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BH: Okay. So what kinds of food do you like to eat now that you’re here, in the United
States?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: He said there are many; there is a lot of food in America (like chicken, fish) – I just, I like
everything.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] [Laughs]
TLI: There are a lot of food, like – yeah, I just like everything.
BH: Okay. So I wanted to ask how people respond when they find out you’re from Burma? I
know you said in Salt Lake the people were really friendly, and so I just want to see if
that’s still the case, or if people respond differently?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So when I got to the United States, I mean even when someone asked me where I’m
from, “Burma.”
“Yeah, okay.” There wasn’t any negative thing.
BH: Okay, that’s good. Can you tell me a little about your home here, and how it’s different
from your home in Burma?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So it’s really different here, houses – to describe it, it’s perfect, you know. But in Burma
it’s very different, you have to build your own home; you have to use like bamboo to
build it. And you have to make your own walls, but they’re not tight walls and wind can
go through any time. It was really different from here.
BH: Wow. What would you like people in Logan to know about you, or your family, or your
ethnic group?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
[37:22]
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TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: He is not very clear on the question.
BH: Let’s see if I can ask it a different way. Is there anything that you would like to share with
the people around here that maybe they don’t know, or you wish they knew?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So I have a different message, you know: I want people to know – before that, I believe
in God, and I want people to know that one day everybody will have a chance to live in
heaven.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: [Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So I kind of asked him to make sure he understand that question, and –
BH: Um-hmm?
TLI: He said that there isn’t anything that he really wants to share because he feels that other
people, you know, (other American people) I’m sure they have faced many difficulty as
well (getting here) – maybe back in the day or something. So it’s probably the same
story.
BH: Okay. Would you ever be interested in going back to Burma?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: I’m very happy here. I do feel like going back, but I don’t want to go back because my
parents, my brothers – I don’t know where they are; in Burma, I don’t know where
they’re at and I don’t want to go back.
BH: Okay. What are you most proud of?
TLI: Here, or?
BH: Yeah, I would say what are you most proud of out of all of this: your experiences and
traveling?
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BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: I’m very proud, you know, to live each day being healthy and being happy day after day.
So yeah, that’s what I’m really proud of.
[41:20]
BH: Thank you. And do you have any dreams for the future – either for yourself, or for your
children?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: For me, my family, my children, my family, my wife – for my family – I don’t have any
dreams for us, but I do believe in God and I pray for us (for me and for my family) you
know, to be healthy, to stay happy. Yeah.
BH: Okay. I think those are all of my questions. But before we end, I just want to see if any of
my colleagues have one as well.
BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Yeah, you guys can ask questions.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: If I know the answer, I will answer it; but if I don’t, I don’t.
WV: I’m just kind of curious who plays the guitar in the family – is that yours?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Yeah, I used to – every Sunday when I pray with my family – I used to play the guitar
every Sunday.
WV: Nice.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
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TLI: According to my religion, my Bible, it said that when you’re praying, you know, when
you’re praying and asking for God’s help, you must play a song (you know, play with the
guitar).
BH: Wow.
TLI: And so I’m doing it every Sunday.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: I believe that – I know that we can’t see God, but I know God can help us in a way.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And how do I know this is because I am very healthy every day, and I have been doing
work here for almost seven years and I am very healthy – and I know that God is helping
me.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And at the same time I want to tell people that God is helping us, but if they want to
listen, then I can tell them; if you don’t want to listen, then I don’t have to tell them.
BH: Do you have any questions?
MG: Yeah. What is your favorite thing about Cache Valley? What is your favorite thing to do
here?
MGI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: He doesn’t know what his favorite thing is. Is there an example you can give?
MG: Hiking, camping –
MGI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
[45:37]
TLI: No, I haven’t done that – hiking or camping; I’ve just been driving around the city, going
back to Salt Lake and eating at restaurants sometimes.
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TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] [Laughs]
TLI: Yeah, I’ve never been hiking.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: But I would like to go one day.
BH: So actually, I thought of a couple more questions – if that’s okay?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Yeah, that’s fine.
TL: [Laughs]
BH: Okay. So you mentioned the guitar, and playing music is an important part of your
religious observance – so I was just wondering if you could kind of describe your
religious community; sort of, things about your religion?
BHI: Community?
BH: Yeah
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: I know that every religion has different beliefs, and there are different ways how you can
pray to God; but my way is I read the Bible every day, and that’s how I understand God’s
word. I remember when I was in the refugee camp, you know, and living there for eight
years, I was going around to different religions, you know, listening to people giving
speeches. One day I met this priest, you know, he taught me many valuable things, and he
even asked me to be an heir priest – is that how you say it? Well, yeah.
BH: Like an apprentice?
TLI: Well to become the next priest.
BH: Okay; to be like the replacement after him?
TLI: Yes, yes. Yeah, he even asked me to become that – or if he has to go somewhere else,
you know, I’d be taking his position to do all the religious things in the church. Yeah.
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TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So there are lots of gods; Americans call him Jesus, but the thing is you need to know
which one is real, you know, which one is the real God.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So whether there are many gods, or just one God – if anybody want to listen, I can tell
them the story.
BH: If you want to share.
BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So there is only one God that I believe in, you know; he cannot be sick, or he can heal –
he can get all or any other things. Before anybody (any human being) exists, he lived here
before, and he created the Earth, trees, everything.
[50:20]
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Another type of God is who can die, who heals, and it is called –
[Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And in Burmese it is called [Pwo Karen word]
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And the easier way to say is Pe Synga Piya[??]
BH: Pe Synga –
TLI: Piya. Pe Synga Piya. Yeah.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And he is a God that can die, and you know, and can’t heal people. And he is the God
that the particular God created. Do you understand that?
BH: He would –
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TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So the one person God – he created another person who is also God, but he can die.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: If it’s God Jesus – there is only one Jesus.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And he is everybody – for everybody’s God.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: He can’t die, you know, he can’t get old – he is the only one.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: There is a guarantee, you know, that if anybody believe that there is God, that one
particular person will be in heaven.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So if you believe God, you know, you have to follow his words; you have to read the
Bible, you have to do what the Bible says.
BH: So I have just one more question.
BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: That’s fine.
BH: You seem very interested in religion, and so I was wondering if that was a part of your
life before you came to the refugee camp, or if that’s something that you really became
interested in once you got to the refugee camps?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
[53:11]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
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TLI: So I was really, really interested in God in the year 1999, and that was when I got to the
refugee camp called Umpium; and that was when I was really interested in religion.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So in the refugee camp there are a lot of people who just go around the camp, you know,
telling stories, sharing God’s word, you know.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And I would go all over the place to listen to their speeches, you know; it can be night, or
it can be day.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Why I wanted to know that is because I believe God is good, and you know –
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And you know, like I say, I started listening to those speeches every day, and that’s
where I learned knowledge, you know, about religion.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And I understood a lot of words that – well, the speakers’ word.
TL: [Laughs]
BH: Very neat. So there were not very many people in Burma who spoke of these different
religions? I guess I’m just wondering why it was so prevalent in the refugee camp – was
it the same way in Burma?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: No; I didn’t see any in Burma.
BH: Wow.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Yeah, I started seeing it in the refugee camp.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
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TLI: So when I was in Burma, I heard of such religions, but I had never seen it.
BH: Okay.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: When I first got to the refugee camp, you know, I was asked, “Do you know God? Do
you know the real one, you know, the one that can heal, the one that can’t get old?” So
I’m like, “Well God is good, so yes – I want to know.”
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And now that I know a lot about God, you know, I do want to share it with people, to
those who want to listen; but if you don’t want to listen, that’s okay.
BH: So I think we are almost out of time, unfortunately – because we only have so much time
that we can record on here. But it has been fascinating to listen to you.
BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] [Laughs]
TLI: Thank you.
BH: Thank you very much.
BHI: [Repeating in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Thank you.
BH: So I think that’s the end of the interview.
BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.]
[End recording – 57:20]]]> Tun Lay, 1954-]]> Gill, Meagan]]> Chit Moe]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Hanks, Bethany, 1989]]> Gross, Susan]]> transcripts;]]> application/pdf]]> 182560 Bytes]]> eng; kar]]> Text;]]> Burma, Thailand, Salt Lake City, Logan (Utah)]]> Refugees, families, Immigration & culture, social justice]]> Tun Lay, 1954-]]> Gill, Meagan]]> Chit Moe]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Hanks, Bethany, 1989]]> oral histories (document genre);]]> audio/mp3]]> 55056796 Bytes]]> eng; kar]]> Sound;]]> Burma, Thailand, Salt Lake City, Logan (Utah)]]> Refugees, families, Immigration & culture, social justice]]> Tun Lay]]> Tun Lay--Photographs;]]> Tun Lay, 1958-]]> Gill, Meagan]]> Chit Moe]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Hanks, Bethany]]> Photographs;]]> image/jpeg;]]> 684165 Bytes]]> eng; kar]]> Image; Still Image;]]> Karen State; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Salt Lake Couty, Utah; United States; Logan, Cache Valley, Utah, United States;]]> Refugees, families, Immigration & culture, social justice]]> 19th century--Photographs; Stereoscopic views]]> Savage, C. R. (Charles Roscoe), 1832-1909]]> Savage, C. R.--(Charles Roscoe),--1832-1909]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Image; StillImage;]]> Weber Canyon, Weber County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5784434/]]> 19th century; 1860-1869]]> ]]> Turkana, Kakuma, Kenya
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]]> ]]> Flickr]]> ]]> ]]> Close up of Gerards Herbal Turkie Corne image.]]> John Gerard]]> Close up of Turky Wheat, Gerards Herbal.]]> John Gerard]]> Richard Turner; A View of the Heavens; Turner's Compendium; Astronomy;]]> Reverend Richard Turner]]> English]]> Richard Turner; Plain Trigonometry; Beehive Problem; Turner's Compendium; Math; Trigonometry]]> Reverend Richard Turner]]> English]]> Richard Turner; Plain Trigonometry; Turner's Compendium; Math; Trigonometry]]>
Richard Turner, Plain Trigonometry, 30, as found in Turner's A View of the Heavens, (USU SCA).]]> Reverend Richard Turner]]> English]]> Richard Turner; Plain Trigonometry; Problem Seven; Turner's Compendium; Math; Trigonometry]]> Reverend Richard Turner]]> English]]> Richard Turner; Plain Trigonometry; Problem Twenty-Three; Turner's Compendium; Math; Trigonometry]]> Reverend Richard Turner]]> English]]> Richard Turner; Plain Trigonometry; Problem Two; Turner's Compendium; Math; Trigonometry]]> Reverend Richard Turner]]> English]]> Richard Turner; A View of the Earth; Dedication Page; Turner's Compendium; Geography]]>
Richard Turner, A View of the Earth, dedication page, as found in Turner's A View of the Heavens, (USU SCA).]]> Reverend Richard Turner]]> English]]> Richard Turner; A View of the Earth; Turner's Compendium; Geography;]]> Reverend Richard Turner]]> English]]> Richard Turner; Plain Trigonometry; Oblique Triangles; Turner's Compendium; Math; Trigonometry]]> Reverend Richard Turner]]> English]]>