Ka Sin, 1967-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> photographs]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1015802 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah]]> Ka Sin, 1967-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> photographs]]> image/jpeg;]]> 875383 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah]]> Ka Sin, 1967-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> photographs]]> image/jpeg;]]> 966271 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah]]> Ka Sin, 1967-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> photographs]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1253565 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah]]> Ka Sin, 1967-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> photographs]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1269524 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah]]> Ka Sin, 1967-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> photographs]]> image/jpeg;]]> 917227 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah]]> Ka Mar, 1988-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Giles, David, 1986-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> photographs]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1257887 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah;]]> Ka Mar, 1988-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Giles, David, 1986-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> photographs]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1188532 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah;]]> Ka Mar, 1988-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Giles, David, 1986-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> photographs]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1563166 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah;]]> Ka Mar, 1988-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Giles, David, 1986-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> photographs]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1479865 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah;]]> Ka Mar, 1988-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Giles, David, 1986-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> photographs]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1318763 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah;]]> Ka Mar, 1988-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Giles, David, 1986-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> photographs]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1067701 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah;]]> Ka Mar, 1988-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Giles, David, 1986-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> photographs]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1241034 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah;]]> Ka Mar, 1988-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Giles, David, 1986-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> photographs]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1110062 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah;]]> Ka Mar, 1988-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Giles, David, 1986-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> photographs]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1179376 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah;]]> Ka Mar, 1988-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Giles, David, 1986-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> photographs]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1006673 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah;]]> Ka Mar, 1988-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Giles, David, 1986-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> photographs]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1422831 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah;]]> Ka Mar, 1988-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Giles, David, 1986-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> photographs]]> image/jpeg;]]> 989729 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah;]]> Ka Mar, 1988-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Giles, David, 1986-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> photographs]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1148046 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah;]]> Ka Mar, 1988-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Giles, David, 1986-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> photographs]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1186774 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah;]]> Ka Mar, 1988-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Giles, David, 1986-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> photographs]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1065407 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah;]]> Burmese Muslim; Refugee; Children; Interview;]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> photographs;]]> image/jpeg;]]> 990742 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand;]]> Burmese Muslim; Refugees; Interview;]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> photographs;]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1314413 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand;]]> Burmese Muslim Refugee; Landlord issues;]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> photographs;]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1373615 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand;]]> Burmese Muslim Refugee; Woman; Family;]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> photographs;]]> image/jpeg;]]> 966666 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand;]]> Burmese Muslim Refugee; Children; Interview;]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> photographs;]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1048927 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand;]]> Burmese Muslim Refugee; Artist;]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> photographs;]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1101738 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand;]]> Burmese Muslim Refugee; Shoes;]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> photographs;]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1289826 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand;]]> Burmese Muslim; Poster; Fruit; Flowers; Customs;]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> photographs;]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1100853 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand;]]> Burmese Muslim Refugee; Interview; Children; Make up;]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> photographs;]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1174538 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand;]]> Burmese Muslim Refugee; Woman; Family]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> photographs;]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1043858 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand;]]> Burmese Muslim; Make up; Refugee; Interview; Children;]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> photographs;]]> image/jpeg;]]> 947548 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand;]]> Burmese Muslim Refugee; Interview; Children;]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> photographs;]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1144971 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand;]]> Burmese Muslim Refugee; make up; Family;]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> photographs;]]> image/jpeg;]]> 837308 Bytes]]> Image;StillImage;]]> Burma; Thailand;]]> Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Gross, Susan;]]> transcripts;]]> application/pdf;]]> 189532 Bytes]]> Text;]]> 2010-2019; 21st century;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> oral histories (document genres);]]> audio/mp3;]]> 59624475 Bytes]]> Sound;]]> 2010-2019; 21st century;]]> Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
1
CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET
Interviewee(s): Kaw Lay
Present: David Giles, Cami Dilg, Deanna Allred, Kaw Lay, Har Be Bar, Khin Mar
Cho (Kaw Lay’s wife)
Place of Interview: Kaw Lay’s home, Logan, Utah
Date of Interview: May 16, 2015
Language(s): Burmese
Translation:
Interviewer: David Giles
Interpreter: Har Be Bar
Recordist: Deanna Allred
Photographer: Cami Dilg
Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL
broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone
Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe with PowerPlayer foot pedal.
Transcribed by: Susan Gross, May 25, 2015
Transcript Proofed by:
Brief Description of Contents: Mr. Kaw Lay discusses being born in Burma, and then the
conditions during the war. He talks about his wife and children escaping to a refugee camp in
Thailand, with him following later (after having earned more money to support the trip). He talks
about the journey to the United States, and what it took to adjust and get settled in Logan, Utah.
He and his wife talk about the struggles they’ve had, as well as daily life for their family in the
United States.
Reference: DG = David Giles
DGI = David Giles’ words interpreted by translator
KL = Kaw Lay
KLI = Kaw Lay’s words interpreted by translator
DA = Deanna Allred
DAI = Deanna Allred’s words interpreted by translator
CD = Cami Dilg
CDI = Cami Dilg’s words interpreted by translator
KC = Khin Mar Cho
KC = Khin Mar Cho’s words interpreted by translator
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
2
NOTE: [You will have to modify this as appropriate—whether using CommGap or in-person
interpreter.] The interview was conducted with CommGap Interpretive Services; the interpreter
joined the interview via a cell phone. False starts, pauses, or transitions in dialogue such as “uh”
and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcript. All additions and added
information to transcript are noted with brackets.
TAPE TRANSCRIPTION
[00:01]
DG: Okay. This is David Giles; we are recording an interview for the “Voices: Refugees in
Cache Valley” project. Also with me we have Cami Dilg and Deanna Allred (I
completely spaced). Today is the 16th of May, and it is about one o’clock in the
afternoon. We also have Har Be Bar, who is the interpreter today, and Kaw Lay, who we
will be interviewing. Is there anything else we need to put on the tag, or is that it? Okay.
Sorry?
CD: Go ahead and ask who else is in the room –
DG: Okay.
CD: And have them be identified.
DG: Okay. Could you do me a favor and just tell us your names?
??: My name is [??]
DG: Okay. Sean[??], would you mind?
KC: My name is Khin Mar Cho, his wife.
DG: Okay.
[Inaudible discussion with folks in the room.]
DG: [??] okay.
DA: How do you spell that?
??: T-H-U-V[??]
DG: Oh, I think you were here yesterday.
??: Yeah.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
3
DG: Okay; alright.
DA: How do you spell your name?
KC: Khin Mar Cho: K-H-I-N space M-A-R space C-H-O.
DA: C-H--?
KC: C-H-O.
DA: C-H-O? Thank you.
DG: Okay. Now, before we start Kaw Lay, just to make sure on Har Be Bar, it’s easiest if we
just speak one or two sentences at a time, give her time to translate.
DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
DG: If you would like to speak in English, that’s fine; if you feel more comfortable speaking
in Burmese – that’s fine as well; just whichever you prefer.
DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: He will speak in English – oh, Burmese.
DG: Okay.
KLI: Yeah.
DG: Alright. So my first question: can you tell us your first name and your birth year? And
what languages do you speak?
DGI: [Repeating the questions in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: First name is Kaw and the last name is Lay; he speak Burmese. His birthday is –
KL: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KLI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KL: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KLI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
4
KL: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KLI: It’s 1963.
DG: 1963, okay. Now let me see, tell us a little bit about your family – you know, how many
children do you have? And how long have you been married? That kind of thing.
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: He don’t remember exactly how long he been married. And then he has five children.
[Speaking in Burmese to interviewee.] Two girls and three boys.
DG: Okay, thank you. Let me see – can you please describe the ethnic or religious community
that you belong to? So you know, tell us about being a Burmese Muslim.
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
[04:33]
KLI: I’m kind of Muslim ethnic group.
DG: Okay, thank you. Now let me see – can you tell us a little bit more about Burma? You
know, how long you lived there, why you left?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: He was born in Burma, and then there was civil war going around, so they had to move
around in Burma. So he had to leave Burma because of the war to Thailand camp.
DG: So you went to Thailand first?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
Yeah, Thailand first.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
5
DG: Okay, so what was that like – having to move around, having to move to Thailand?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
[Discussion in Burmese between several people.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: Well everything was destroyed, so we have to move around. Well he have to, so it’s kind
of not good.
DG: Um-hmm.
KLI: Yeah, that’s what he try to say.
DG: Okay. Let me see – okay. So about how old were you when you had to leave to Thailand?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: Forty-four[??]
DG: Okay. And do you remember how many kids you had at that time?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
[08:23]
KLI: At that time he only have four childrens, and then in the camp she was born.
DG: Wow, okay. What was that like having little kids with you when you needed to leave?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
6
KLI: Yeah, it was the worst time ever, because the whole family cannot go together. At first
his wife and two childrens went there first; and then he followed them.
DG: Wow that sounds scary.
KLI: Um-hmm.
DG: Did you have to go separately because if immigration restrictions, because of laws?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: First because their family over there in the camp – they went first – and then they support
them to get there. Yeah, he stay in Burma, work for a little bit and then get money, and
then go.
DG: I understand; okay, thank you. What was it like living in a refugee camp? What were
your experiences there?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: He don’t have much experience – he get free food, he live with the food because he don’t
work (in the camp there are no jobs).
DG: Um-hmm. So what kind of food did you get?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: Rice, beans, salt, oil, chilies.
DG: Wow, so not very much?
KLI: Not very much.
DG: Not very much. Let me see – now what kind of medical care was there in the camp?
What would you do if you got into an accident, or you got sick?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
7
[13:07]
KLI: In the camp there are clinic, and then if he get sick he will go there. If the health is getting
worse, and like dying, the clinic will support him to go to a Mae Sot hospital (he will get
take care of him); he don’t have to pay for it.
DG: Okay, thank you. What kind of hospital was it?
KLI: It’s a clinic – in the camp? The clinic.
DG: Oh, well you said if they got worse then they’d go to a hospital?
KLI: Uh-huh, like in Mae Sot – in the big city.
DG: Oh, okay; alright. Let me see – now you said there wasn’t any work that you could do in
the camp, no jobs?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: No.
DG: Okay, wow; wow. Okay, now when you were in the camp did you celebrate in holy days
or any holidays?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: There are a lot of people (like Muslim people); so that way he could celebrate the Eid
(they call the Eid). First he went to the mosque and then pray, and then come back and
have fun with families.
DG: Cool. Was there a mosque in the camp?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: Yeah, they were.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
8
DG: Okay, wow. What was the mosque like – like what was it made out of? What did it look
like?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: It’s made of wood and bamboo tree.
DG: Okay. Was it specially decorated, or was it just you know, just a house?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
[16:12]
KLI: It’s kind of like a house, but it’s a lot bigger because a lot of people go there and kind of
decorated.
DG: Okay, thank you.
KLI: Um-hmm.
DG: Let me see – now what was it like politically? Like what was your relation – when you
were refugees, what was your relationship with Thailand?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: You don’t have a lot of like relationship with Thailand – just live in the camp, and then
their like government help.
DG: Okay, thank you. Did you feel safe in the camps?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: It’s not safe over there; the Burmese people will come and burn them, but he was afraid.
DG: That does sound scary. Thank you. Let me see – so how did you first hear about the
United States’ refugee program, and how did you apply for it?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
9
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
[19:19]
KLI: There is a group that called –
[Speaking in Burmese to interviewee.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: UNHI –
[Speaking in Burmese to interviewee.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: It’s called UI – he don’t really know. And then he had to register for to come here (like a
lot of people were).
DG: Okay, thank you. Did you get any help applying?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: Yeah, the UI group helped with everything, because they don’t know anything. So they
helped.
DG: Okay, thank you. I have a question about the paperwork – was it all in English, or did you
have to fill it out in Burmese?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: Yeah, it’s in English, but there are translator that helped them.
DG: Wow that sounds like a nightmare.
KLI: [Laughs] Yeah.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
10
DG: Let me see – so what was it like coming to the U.S.? What was your experience with the
move?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: From the camp he had to go to the city, in Thailand city – he had to like stay there three
days in the church, and then he had to take the airplane (like three to four airplanes); and
he went to New York, and from New York to here.
DG: Wow.
KLI: Yeah.
DG: Wow.
KLI: It’s a long way.
DG: Um-hmm. Kaw Lay’s wife has just sat down with us. Let me see – now you said when
you went to the camp you had to go – it was your wife and a couple of children, and then
you came afterwards? Did you all go at the same time to the United States, or did you
have to go twice like that?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
[22:54]
KLI: All together.
DG: All together?
KLI: Um-hmm.
DG: Okay. Let me see – so when you first got to the United States, what was it like for those
first couple months? Did anyone help you out, or were you just on your own?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: He get a little bit help with the renting and stuff, but there is a problem with his son
broken leg; yeah.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
11
DG: Um-hmm. So who helped you with the rent?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
[Discussion in Burmese among several folks present.]
KLI: There is a group (IRC) help pay the rent for six months.
DG: Oh, wow. That might have been the – Cache Valley group? We’ll look it up –
[Discussion in Burmese.]
You mentioned there was a problem when your son broke his leg – what happened then?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KC: [Responding in Burmese.]
[Discussion in Burmese among several folks present.]
KCI: They get separated – he is in the hotel, and then she is in the hospital with the broken leg
child; and then there is no phone, no number that to call. And then they don’t know how
to contact each other.
DG: Wow. And you’re saying this is Kaw Lay and his wife (for the recording)?
KCI: Um-hmm, yeah.
DG: Okay, wow; sounds very scary. Let me see – now did the hospital charge you for that?
How did you get help paying for that (the broken leg)?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KC: [Responding in Burmese.]
KCI: The IRC helped them to pay for it.
DG: Okay; alright, thank you. Let me see, next question – so how long have you guys been
living here, in Logan?
[27:44]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
12
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
[Discussion among Kaw Lay, Har Be Bar, and Khin Mar Cho in Burmese.]
KLI: Like five to six year.
DG: Okay, let me see – what is life like here? What do you do (what kind of work do you do)?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
[Discussion among Kaw Lay, Har Be Bar, and Khin Mar Cho in Burmese.]
KLI: He work in Miller, and then he is saying that he don’t get food stamps now – so with his
money he buy food and stuff, and live like that.
DG: What specifically do you do at Miller (like what’s your job)?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: He had to do the inside of the cow’s stomach –
DG: Oh, goodness.
KLI: [Laughs] Yeah.
DG: Khin Mar Cho (is that how you?) –
KC: Khin Mar Cho.
DG: Khin Mar Cho – what do you do for work here, or do you work?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KC: [Responding in Burmese.]
KCI: She sew, she cook – she sew for other people like – she sew for my clothes too, and then
I pay for it.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
13
DG: Oh cool; awesome, thank you. Let me see – do you feel included in the Logan
community? Do you feel a part of the group here?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: Yeah, he feel like it.
DG: Good, good. Let me see – now tell us a little bit about your home here: like how is it like
the house you had back in Burma, and how is it different?
[31:13]
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
[Discussion among Kaw Lay, Har Be Bar, and Khin Mar Cho in Burmese.]
KLI: Thailand – the camp houses are like sometime missing a wall –
KL: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KL: Made with the bamboo trees.
DG: Um-hmm?
KL: And then here it’s like completely a lot better; yeah.
DG: Um-hmm; okay, thank you. Let me see – oh, have you had any problems with your
landlord, or have they been nice and helpful?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: The best landlord ever, he said, because whenever he need something he call it, and then
that person come.
DG: Okay, so the landlord is helpful then?
KLI: Yeah, it’s very helpful.
DG: Okay. Good, good; we’ve heard some stories where that wasn’t the case.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
14
KLI: Um-hmm.
DG: If you could translate that.
DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: The others are not that helpful. Yeah.
DG: Okay; wow, it sounds like you got lucky [laughs].
DGI: Um-hmm. [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.] Very, very.
DG: Um-hmm. Now let me see – so what would you like people in Logan to know about you
and your family?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KC: [Responding in Burmese.]
[34:44]
KLI: If they’re interested in them, they can come and ask about it; yeah [laughs].
DG: Okay. Alright, let me see – now if you could, would you like to go back to Burma?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: He would like to go back because he have like a lot of friends. And then if he goes
somewhere else (like in the jungle) he is happy to live in there, because he feel like it’s
his place – and here he don’t feel like it’s own place. And then his child would not go
back because they live here, they feel like it’s their place. So yeah, he would like to go
back.
DG: Okay. I’m sorry – what was your name again?
KC: Khin Mar Cho.
DG: Khin Mar Cho – would you like to go back?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
15
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KC: [Responding in Burmese.]
KCI: She doesn’t like to go back because there are still problems and then she doesn’t want to
like get problem anymore – she just want to get free.
DG: Um-hmm.
KCI: Yeah.
DG: Okay. Now let me see – I’d like to go back and ask about the move to the United States.
Is there anything that you think that people could do to make that move easier, to make
that transition?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
[Discussion among Kaw Lay, Har Be Bar, and Khin Mar Cho in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
[38:25]
KLI: He want to get like easiest way that he could, if he can – but he had to go around because
– [speaking in Burmese to interviewee]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: It’s the traveling stuff, so –
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: Yeah, he cannot just go straight –
DG: Are you talking about he would have liked to have flown into Salt Lake –
KLI: Uh-huh.
DG: Instead of going to New York and back?
KLI: Um-hmm, yeah.
DG: Okay. Okay now let me see – now just a couple more questions. So what are you most
proud of?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
16
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: He is very proud that he could come here, and then like his childrens can go to school
free. Yeah.
DG: Good. Now Khin Mar Cho – what are you most proud of?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KC: [Responding in Burmese.]
[Laughter]
KCI: She said nothing because she can’t speak English until now.
KC: [Responding in Burmese.]
KCI: Yeah, she wants to like speak English and then get better health.
DG: Get better health?
KCI: Um-hmm.
DG: Okay. Are you having medical problems right now?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KC: [Responding in Burmese – crying.]
KCI: Yeah, she is having with medical; she want to have medical care.
KC: [Responding in Burmese.]
KCI: Yeah, they don’t help.
DG: They don’t help?
KCI: Um-hmm.
DG: Okay. I’m not sure –
DA: Where does she go to get medical help?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
17
KCI: She just go to the hospital, but she has insurance in the JBS, but the JBS didn’t help them
much; so, yeah.
[41:27]
DA: For her specific problem?
KCI: Um-hmm.
KC: [Responding in Burmese.]
KCI: The thing is that they could pay, but they did not pay. And then there is like a lot of
paperworks come, and then she don’t know how to read and stuff.
DG: Would you like us to see if we can help with that?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KC: [Responding in Burmese.]
KCI: Yeah, she would like you to.
DG: Okay, alright. I don’t know how much we can do, but I’ll ask and see if there is someone
who can help.
DA: It sounds like there’s just a translation problem. Is it more than just a translation problem?
DG: Yeah, it sounds like a problem with the insurance.
KCI: Yeah, with the insurance – and then she don’t get the medical care from the government.
DA: Okay.
DG: If you could tell her we will try and help, but –
KC: [Speaking in Burmese.]
[Discussion among Kaw Lay, Har Be Bar, and Khin Mar Cho in Burmese.]
KCI: There is still a problem with his son leg, and that he had to go every year and then he
cannot go because of the medical problem that nobody problem.
DG: Okay. Can you tell her we’ll talk to some people and see if there is something we can do
– if there is some way we can help.
DGI: [Repeating the question.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
18
KC: [Responding in Burmese.]
KCI: She doesn’t want any food stamps or stuff, she just want the medical care.
DA: She doesn’t the what?
KCI: The food stamps.
DA: Yes, um-hmm.
DG: Yeah, we’ll try to help. I don’t know much about –
KC: [Speaking in Burmese.]
DG: Okay, we’ll see what we can do.
DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
DG: Now just a couple more questions. What are your dreams for yourself and for your
children? We’ve already talked about medical care –
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KC: [Responding in Burmese.]
KCI: She wants her youngest daughter to be a doctor – she really wants –
DG: Um-hmm.
KC: [Speaking in Burmese.]
[Laughter]
DA: Is that you?
??: Yeah.
DG: Yeah, that would be very good.
DA: That would be wonderful.
DG: Now Kaw Lay, what are your dreams – for yourself and for your children?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
19
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
[45:44]
KLI: He don’t have a dream for himself, but for his daughter and son – he don’t to be like him
(like working hard), he just want like their lives to get better and better. That’s his dream.
DG: Okay. Now let me see – is there anything else (this question is for both of you) – is there
anything else you’d like to talk about that we haven’t asked?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: Nothing.
DG: Okay. Now those are all the questions that I have, but do either of you have questions?
DA: I have some questions. If there were English classes available, do you have transportation
to get there? Do you know if there are English classes?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KC: [Responding in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KC: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KCI: There is people that come her house and like teach her English, but she don’t get it
because of problem with the brain, I don’t know.
KC: [Responding in Burmese.]
KCI: Yeah, she don’t learn anything.
DG: I’m sorry –
KC: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KCI: When they teach she get at first, and then later she forgot all.
DG: That’s kind of how it is for us too, actually [laughs]. Like in the classes that we’re taking
for school, we need to learn things over and over. So, yeah.
DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
20
DG: Okay, any other questions.
DA: I do have a question: when you were in the hospital with your son right after you got
here, and you were at home – how did you find each other? How did you get back
together your family?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KC: [Responding in Burmese.]
KCI: They take a weeks, then the IRC come and then they find a way –
DA: To get them all back together?
KCI: Um-hmm, yeah.
DA: They were separated for weeks?
KCI: Um-hmm, yeah.
DA: Because they couldn’t get back together?
KCI: Um-hmm. That’s crazy [laughs].
DA: That is crazy.
KC: [Responding in Burmese.]
KCI: Yeah, the IRC take –
KC: [Responding in Burmese.]
KCI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KC: [Responding in Burmese.]
KCI: The IRC took them to the hospital.
DA: Okay.
KL: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KLI: Yeah, from hotel they rent and then once he got the home, and then they took him to the
hospital.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
21
DA: Um-hmm; okay.
[49:47]
DG: Okay, wow.
KC: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KCI: They can only drink water because they couldn’t eat the American food.
DA: I’m sure; I’m sure it was very different – yeah.
DG: And hospital food isn’t good anyways.
DA: Yeah [laughs].
DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
KL: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KC: [Speaking in Burmese.]
DA: Is there any American food you like now?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KC: [Responding in Burmese.]
KCI: Like pizza.
[Laughter]
DA: Yeah, pizza [laughing].
DG: Okay. Now Cami, do you have a question?
CD: Were you finished?
DA: I’m done, thank you.
CD: Um-hmm. I guess to follow up with the food question, where do you purchase your food?
Do you do that here in the valley, or do you travel somewhere to get the food that you do
eat?
CDI: Now?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
22
CD: Um-hmm.
CDI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: Yeah, from Salt Lake – they get from Salt Lake.
DG: Wow.
CD: How often do you make the trip down there?
CDI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: Once a month.
KL: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KLI: There is not a lot of Asians food in here, so they have to go to Salt Lake and once a
month buy a lot of food.
DA: Um-hmm.
DG: Um-hmm.
[52:05]
CD: How do you get down there? Do you go with a family? Do you drive? Do you take public
transportation?
CDI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KC: [Responding in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: They go as a family because he don’t know how to drive, so he had to take his older son.
DG: Is his son [??]
KLI: Yeah [??]
DA: [??]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
23
KLI: Um-hmm.
DG: Okay.
CD: What is the traditional role of male or female, or father – or say husband and wife – in
your culture?
CDI: What is the traditional –
CD: The traditional role – does the wife play certain roles, the husband play certain roles?
CDI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: There is no traditional role, specifically, that they do; they just go to work, she just stay
home; that’s it every day.
DG: Okay.
CD: I’ve got one or two more questions.
DG: Okay, sorry [laughs].
CD: If someone wanted to learn more about your community (so someone from Logan), are
there events or, you know, gatherings that they could attend to learn more about your
community or to meet people from Burma?
CDI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
[54:41]
KLI: Yeah, they could come like when the Eid (the holiday) come – we cook, and then
everyone like around the community come and eat.
DG: Okay. When is Eid?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
24
KC: [Responding in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: Next month is the Ramadan –
DA: Uh-huh.
KLI: That we have to fast; and then after Ramadan is the Eid.
DA: After Ramadan?
KLI: Yeah.
[Discussion among Kaw Lay, Har Be Bar, and Khin Mar Cho in Burmese.]
KLI: It’s April 6th – [speaking in Burmese], like the 18th.
DG: Okay, thank you.
KLI: No, it’s June –
DG: [Laughs]
KLI: Sorry [laughs].
KL: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KLI: Yeah, June 20th or the 18th.
DG: Okay.
CD: And then last question – on the reverse side (or the flip side), are there certain events that
take place in the community (American events, I guess) that you participate in – or
maybe just in general – are there things that you do outside of the home? I know you’re
busy with work and taking care of the family – what are some things that you like to do
outside?
CDI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KL: [Speaking in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
25
KLI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KL: [Laughs] [Speaking in Burmese.]
[Discussion among Kaw Lay, Har Be Bar, and Khin Mar Cho in Burmese.]
[Doorbell rings]
[57:48]
KLI: Like they would like to go other people houses and visit – that’s what they like to do.
DG: Okay; so they like to go to other people’s homes, and they like to visit?
KLI: Um-hmm, yeah.
DG: Okay.
KC: [Responding in Burmese.]
KCI: They also like to go to Americans [??] houses, but they don’t know how to speak so –
yeah, if they invite, they would like to go.
DG: Okay.
DA: Oh, well we can do that.
CD: That can be arranged.
[Laughter]
DA: She can come visit us.
KC: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KCI: Yeah, they usually stay home because of like problems speaking English; and they don’t
even go to the parent-teacher conferences.
CD: Would they attend school events, or something like that (parent-teacher conference) if
they had someone to translate?
CDI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
26
KC: [Responding in Burmese.]
KCI: Yeah.
DG: Okay; alright, any other questions? Okay – if you could translate this for me –
DGI: Um-hmm.
DG: We are done with the interview now. We are going to transcribe this interview (we’re
going to write it down), and we can also burn you a CD of what we talked about today.
DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
DG: This interview that we’ve had today – the recording and the text – will be stored in the
Utah State University Library.
DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
DG: And we’ll also use this information to put together an exhibit about Burmese Muslims
here, in Logan – and that will be coming up soon –
DA: At the end of the month.
DG: Do we have invitations?
DA: Yes, I do.
CD: We do, and we’d like you to attend – your family and your friends – if you would; we’ll
give you the information.
CDI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
DG: And thank you again very much for allowing us to come and interview you.
DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
KL: [Responding in Burmese.]
KLI: It doesn’t cost anything?
DA: No.
DG: No. Can you do the release forms?
[Discussion among Kaw Lay, Har Be Bar, and Khin Mar Cho in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Kaw
Lay
Page
27
DA: May I take some pictures?
DAI: Yeah.
DA: So can I take pictures of you two?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
DA: Thank you.
DG: Now we do have two forms: one form we’d like each of you to sign. This is just a form
giving us permission to use this interview and to, you know, store it like we’ve talked
about.
DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
[Discussion among Kaw Lay, Har Be Bar, and Khin Mar Cho in Burmese.]
DA: Okay, I only have –
[Background discussion between the interviewers.]
[Discussion among Kaw Lay, Har Be Bar, and Khin Mar Cho in Burmese.]
[End recording – 62:06]]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Gross, Susan;]]> transcripts;]]> application/pdf;]]> 182922 Bytes]]> Text;]]> 2010-2019; 21st century;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> oral histories (document genres);]]> audio/mp3;]]> 59624476 Bytes]]> Sound;]]> 2010-2019; 21st century;]]> Ya He Ma, Ka Ma Din, Har Be Bar, Maung Maung, Fareda, family, refugee, Burmese Muslim, Burmese, Muslim, Burma, Myanmar, violence, Thai camp, Thai refugee camp, Mae Sot immigration, Cache Valley, JBS Miller, Logan, immigrant housing, home, apartment, Voices: Refugee Project, folklore, Library of Congress, sewing, translator, life in America, dream]]> Ya He Ma, 1972-;]]> Giles, David, 1986-;]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> oral histories (document genres);]]> audio/mp3;]]> 62731776 Bytes]]> bur; mya; eng;]]> Sound;]]> Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah]]> Burmese Muslim Refugees]]> Ka Mar, 1988]]> Dilg, Cami 1986]]> Giles, David 1986]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> oral histories (document genres);]]> audio/mp3;]]> 54526464 Bytes]]> bur, mya, eng]]> Sound;]]> Burma, Thailand]]> Burmese Muslim refugee; Family; Immigrant, Tradition, Cache Valley, Utah; Logan, Utah;]]> Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
1
CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET
Interviewee(s): Ka Sin
Present: Deanna Allred, David Giles, Cami Dilg, Ka Sin, Har Be Bar, Kem Pu[?]
(Ka Sin’s daughter), Zat No (Ka Sin’s son), Mo (Ka Sin’s son), Ser Geda
(Ka Sin’s wife), Myo (Ka Sin’s son)
Place of Interview: Ka Sin’s home, Logan, Utah
Date of Interview: May 17, 2015
Language(s): Burmese
Translation:
Interviewer: Deanna Allred
Interpreter: Har Be Bar
Recordist: David Giles
Photographer: Cami Dilg
Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL
broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone
Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe with PowerPlayer foot pedal.
Transcribed by: Susan Gross, May 20, 2015
Transcript Proofed by:
Brief Description of Contents: Ka Sin talks about his journey from Burma, to a Thailand
refugee camp, to Japan, then New York, then California, and finally Utah. He talks about
working and learning English in Salt Lake City, Utah, and then later moving to Logan, Utah. He
talks about his life during the war in Burma and in the refugee camp in Thailand. He discusses
his life in America, and the way his children are growing up here, versus the life they may have
had in Burma.
Reference: DA = Deanna Allred
DAI = Deanna Allred’s words interpreted by translator
KS = Ka Sin
KSI = Ka Sin’s words interpreted by translator
DG = David Giles
DGI = David Giles’ words interpreted by translator
KP = Kem Pu
ZN = Zat No
M = Mo
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
2
MY = Myo
NOTE: [You will have to modify this as appropriate—whether using CommGap or in-person
interpreter.] The interview was conducted with CommGap Interpretive Services; the interpreter
joined the interview via a cell phone. False starts, pauses, or transitions in dialogue such as “uh”
and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcript. All additions and added
information to transcript are noted with brackets.
TAPE TRANSCRIPTION
[Part 1 of 2 – 00:01]
DA: Yeah, will you introduce who is here with us? I’d love them to stay.
DAI: [Repeating question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: His daughter and then his youngest son.
DA: Youngest son?
KSI: Um-hmm.
DA: [Speaking to Ka Sin’s daughter] And what is your name?
KP: Kem Pu[?]
DA: Kem Pu? How old are you?
KP: I am 16.
DA: [Speaking to Ka Sin’s son] And what is your name?
ZN: Zat No.
KS: Zat No.
DA: Zat No – can you spell that?
ZN: Z-A-T N-O.
DA: N-O.
DG: Okay; exactly like it sounds, actually.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
3
DA: And how old are you?
ZN: Ten.
DA: You’re ten.
DG: [Speaking to Kem Pu] Okay; are you getting your driver’s license by chance?
KP: Yeah.
DA: Yeah?
DG: Cool.
DA: [Speaking to Kem Pu] What school do you go to?
KP: Logan High.
DA: Logan High? Good. My daughter went there for a little while.
[Speaking to Zat No] And what school do you go to?
ZN: Wilson.
DA: Wilson? Yes.
DG: Okay.
DA: Okay, good.
DG: Would it be okay if we closed the window?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
DA: It’s just the sound – for the sound.
DAI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
DG: Okay.
DA: Sorry; will that make it uncomfortable?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
4
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: Do you guys want him to open the fan?
DG: Let’s try it. Yeah, I don’t think it will be a problem, but let’s try it.
DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
DA: Okay.
DG: Alright, so let’s begin the tag.
DA: Okay.
KS: [Speaking in Burmese.]
DA: I’m going to look at Cami’s notes about this. I liked what you did there.
[Soft talking in the background between field school students.]
DG: Okay, so I think –
DA: Okay.
DG: These are the questions that you want.
DA: I’ve got the questions here.
Alright, my name is Deanna Allred.
KS: Yes.
DA: We are here at the home of Ka Sin, a Burmese Muslim refugee that we’re doing
interview for the “Voices 2015: Refugees in Cache Valley” (here, in Logan). I’m also
here with Har Be Bar (who is our translator), and David Giles (who is our recordist), and
Cami Dilg (who will be taking pictures). We are also here with Ka Sin’s daughter and
son – are you another son?
??: I’m his son, yeah.
DA: And what’s your name?
M: Mo.
DA: Mo?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
5
DAI: Mo.
DA: Okay; how old are you, Mo?
M: Twenty.
DA: Twenty? Okay.
So, and I saw your wife here too? Yeah, your wife was here. And what’s her name?
KS: Ser Geda.
DA: Ser Geda?
KS: S-E-R –
KSI: S-E-R –
DA: S-E-R?
KS: G-E –
DA: G-E?
KS: D-A.
DA: D-A?
KS: Yeah.
DA: And this is your wife?
KS: Yeah.
DA: Thank you for letting us come.
I’m going to try to translate a little slower – as I’ve listened, some of it’s gone a little fast
and we’ve not gotten it all.
DAI: Um-hmm?
DA: So I’ll try to just translate slower – just a couple sentences at a time – and then I think
that will go a little better.
DAI: Okay.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
6
DA: So you can explain to him that we will probably be going a couple sentences at a time.
[03:36]
DAI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
DA: And it is Sunday, May 17th, 2015. We have another son?
KS: Yeah, Myo.
DA: What’s your name?
MY: Myo.
DA: Myo?
MY: Yeah.
DA: How do you spell that?
MY: M-Y-O.
DA: And how old are you?
MY: Fourteen.
DA: Fourteen? You have a great family.
KS: [Laughs]
DAI: [Repeating statement in Burmese.]
DA: Yeah, this is great. Okay, did I get all the tag?
DG: I think so.
DA: Okay. So we are just going to start the interview.
What is your full name and birth year?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: K-A S-I-N.
DA: Um-hmm.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
7
KS: Yeah. Birthday – December 18, 1967.
DA: Fifty-seven?
KS: Sixty.
KSI: 1967.
DA: Sixty-seven; okay, good. What languages do you speak?
DAI: [Repeating question in Burmese.]
KS: Burmese and Karen.
KSI: Burmese and Karen.
DA: And Karen? Good. Tell me about your family?
DAI: [Repeating question in Burmese.]
KS: Yeah. [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: He has a total family of six people in the family: four childrens, and him and his wife.
DA: Um-hmm. Describe for me your religious community, your ethnic community; describe
for me what it is for you to be a Burmese Muslim?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: Living here it’s the same, but the ethnic group and religious group is a little different.
DA: It’s a little different?
KSI: Yeah.
DA: In what way?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: How do we like practice the religion.
DA: Right, um-hmm. Is there a place where you can go to practice your religion?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
8
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: Here they have it, but it’s a different language –
DA: Oh, right.
KSI: But in Salt Lake they do have it in the same language.
KS: Yeah.
DA: In Salt Lake?
KSI: Yeah.
DA: Okay. Tell me about Burma? You were born in Burma?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: What would you like to know about Burma?
DA: Is it hot? Is it beautiful?
KS: Ah, yeah.
KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
[07:28]
KSI: There are three seasons –
DA: Um-hmm.
KSI: Yeah, summer, rainy, and foggy.
DA: Summer, rain and foggy – that’s good. We haven’t heard that before. How long did you
live there?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
9
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KS: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KSI: Like 21 years.
DA: Uh-huh? Twenty-one years?
KS: Maybe 25 year.
DA: Maybe 25; yes? Why did you leave?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: It’s hard to live because there are civil wars going around, and they are like ethnic groups
(like Karen group) that didn’t get along with –
DA: That didn’t get along with the government?
KS: Yeah.
DA: Or each other?
KSI: Yeah, with the government, with the soldiers, and with the Karen ethnic group.
DA: Okay, okay. So what was that experience like – leaving Burma? What was that like to
leave your country, leave your home?
DAI: [Repeating question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: He felt very bad, like because at first he had some educations in the city, and then he had
to move because in Burma there are all still civil war. He felt very bad.
DA: Yeah, I’m sure; I’m sure. Where did you relocate first?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: At first Burma to Thailand refugee camp.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
10
DA: Yeah. And then where?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: He relocated first in the Thai city for about three years and it did not work out, so he had
to move to a refugee camp.
DA: Um-hmm, okay. What was your experience like in the refugee camp?
[11:07]
DAI: [Repeating question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: They are like –
KS: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KSI: A lot of different peoples –
DA: Um-hmm?
KSI: And different situation – like sometimes they are same level.
DA: Yeah. Describe to me what you ate (the food), what was the medical care like? If you got
sick, what would happen?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: They gave free food from rice, oil, salt, and they don’t do meat or other stuff – because
he also want to eat those meat –
DA: Yeah. But there wasn’t any?
KS: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KSI: He had to find a way –
DA: To get food?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
11
KS: Yeah.
KSI: All the medical care out there are free.
DA: Was it easy to get to? Was it close?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: It’s not that easy to go to the hospital because no transportation –
DA: Right.
KSI: I have to walk.
DA: And it was big – it was a ways away?
KSI: Um-hmm.
DA: Yeah.
KSI: Like 15 minutes.
DA: Yeah. Describe your work and school, there in the refugee camp, for you.
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: For the school, there is no school for an adult (like him). And then a job – he had to go
outside of the camp and work for it.
DA: Um-hmm. Tell me what your life was day-to-day; so you would get up about what time?
You would eat breakfast, or – tell me what a typical day was like for you.
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: He would wake up like early in the morning (like four) –
DA: Um-hmm? And then that’s – what time would you go to bed at night?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
12
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: Like nine to ten.
DA: Yeah, yeah; okay. What did you do for work in the camp?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
[15:15]
KSI: He help with the road –
DA: Okay?
KSI: Fix the road, and also the stables[?] –
DA: Okay. Do you still get up at four?
KS: Huh?
DA: Do you still get up so early?
DAI: Now?
DA: Yeah.
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: Sometimes; and sometimes earlier than that.
DA: Really?
DG: Wow.
DA: Tell me about the holidays (or the celebrations) that you celebrated in the camp?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
13
KS: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KSI: Yeah. He wants to talk about the Eid.
DA: Uh-huh, yes?
KSI: In the morning he will wake up and go to mosque and pray, and then he will find new
clothes for his children to wear.
DA: Um-hmm. Someone else had said you needed a new outfit for Eid, is that right?
KSI: Um-hmm, yeah.
DA: Yeah. Okay, what was the government like – how did the government behave with the
refugees? What was the climate there? Was it helpful? Was it combative? How helpful
was the government when you were in the refugee camp?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
DA: This would have been Thailand I guess, yeah.
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: Yeah, he don’t know about the government because he don’t see it; but there is a
sharing[?] group that helped. And then sometimes they are good, sometimes they are very
bad peoples. If you want to go out and work, they close the gate – they never let him go
out. And then he would find a way to get out from the gate and then go find job. And then
once he came back the soldier will stop him and then take some money.
KS: [Speaking in Burmese.]
DA: Why wouldn’t they want you to leave to go work?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: They thought that they already gave free food to the refugees, and then they thought that
it’s enough for them.
DA: Rice, but no meat?
KSI: Yeah.
DA: Was enough? Okay. Did you feel safe in the camp? Did you feel safe for you, and safe
for your family? Was there safety there?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
14
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
[20:45]
KSI: It’s not safe because the refugee camp in Burma – it’s very close; sometimes the Burmese
government will come and shoot and burn their houses.
DA: Um-hmm, um-hmm; we’ve heard that story before, yeah.
KSI: They want control the camps –
DA: Yeah, and it was very dangerous.
KSI: Um-hmm.
DA: Yeah. How did you learn about the U.S. refugee program?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KS: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KSI: There are a group that would take care of the camp that would come and let them know –
like, “You can go register for the American, for Denmark, for Australia.” And then he –
yeah, from there he come here.
DA: Okay. Who helped you apply?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: Thai also helped, he don’t know exactly –
DA: Um-hmm?
KSI: Yeah, Thai – that group also help – it’s called like OPE –
DA: Um-hmm, um-hmm.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
15
KSI: OPE.
DA: Tell me about coming to the U.S. – I’m sure that was a lot – very emotional – to leave;
I’m sure it was scary. Tell me about when you came to the U.S. – where did you come
first? What was that first day like?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
[23:50]
KSI: It’s very emotional because totally like different people. In the camp, like people are not
like human [laughs].
DA: Um-hmm, um-hmm.
KSI: Yeah, because they are all dirty.
DA: Um-hmm, yeah. Where did you first land? Where did you first come? Where was your
first stop here?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: First, Thai, Bangkok (bigger city) –
DA: Yeah.
KSI: And then to – where was it?
KS: Japan.
KSI: To Japan, and to New York, to California, and then to Salt Lake.
DA: Did you live in Salt Lake for awhile at first, or did you come right to Logan?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: He was in Salt Lake about one year –
DA: Um-hmm?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
16
KSI: And then he also work at DI. His wife work as a babysitter to other people houses.
DA: Um-hmm, good; good. So if you worked at the DI, did you get help from any churches or
any other organizations in the U.S.? And what about – what was helpful, what wasn’t
helpful about your assistance?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: The church helped – did the most.
DA: How could that be improved?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
DA: What improvements could we make?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KS: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KSI: DI help a lot with teaching English. He can only work for a year, and for the
improvement – it’s not – he don’t need that much improvement because he think that it’s
kind of enough.
DA: It was enough? Okay; that’s good to know. How long have you lived here, in Logan?
[27:44]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: About six years.
DA: Yeah?
KS: Yeah.
DA: What do you do here?
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
17
KSI: He work at Miller.
DA: At Miller? Um-hmm.
KS: Yeah.
DA: What is it like for you and your family to live here, in Logan? Is it a good place, you
know, do you feel accepted by the community? Do you feel the schools are good and
helpful?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: Compared to the camp it’s a very good place here; the community is also good – he can
make friends easily.
DA: Um-hmm. Do you like working at Miller’s?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
DA: Is that a good thing?
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: He can’t say, because he don’t know if he like or not because he have to work.
DA: Yeah, you have to work – it doesn’t matter if he likes it or not –
KSI: Yeah.
DA: Yeah, that makes sense. What would make you feel more at home here, in Logan, for
your family and for you?
DAI: What was that question again?
DA: What would make him feel more at home here, in Logan?
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
18
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: Now he don’t feel like this is his home because he is just – only him working, and then he
have a lot of children.
DA: Um-hmm, um-hmm. So he does feel like this is his home, or he doesn’t?
KSI: He doesn’t.
DA: He doesn’t? Why? What could we do – what would need to change for him to feel at
home? Or where would he feel at home?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: Government help him, but he know that he have to work for himself. And also, in the
future, his son and wife maybe if they could help him work, so that way he could buy a
house –
DA: Um-hmm, um-hmm. Is there anything specific – like would it be helpful if there were
more cultural events? Does he feel like he has a community here that assists him and
helps him, you know, if he has to go to the grocery store or get gas, or whatever – you
know, is there anything that we can do to help him feel more at home? Or is it just a
language barrier, you know? I mean, what sorts of things would help him feel more at
home?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
[32:26]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: Yeah, he feel like – yeah, if they would help he would feel like he is part of the
community.
DA: Okay, okay; great. Tell me what is the difference between your home here, and your
home in the refugee camp?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: It’s a big difference as like brown and the sky.
DA: Um-hmm, um-hmm. Do you have a good experience with your landlord?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
19
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: Yeah, he has a good experience. If he need help he can call them –
DA: And they’re very helpful?
KSI: Yeah, they are.
DA: That’s good; that’s good to know. What would you like the people of Logan to know
about you? And then what would you like them to know about your family?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: Like to let everyone know he don’t have much time –
DA: Um-hmm?
KSI: And then for his kids – like their friends, they could tell by themselves.
DA: If you had more time, what would you want to do?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
[35:48]
KSI: Once he was younger, he always interested in English, he always want to like, know. And
now if he have time, he would like to take classes.
DA: Learn English?
KSI: Yeah.
DA: If they came to Miller’s at lunch hour a couple of days a week and taught English, would
you be able to go to those English classes?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
20
KSI: At Miller, there is no time because he only get 30 minutes of lunch time –
DA: Oh.
KSI: And then after that he have to go to use the restroom.
DA: Yeah, yeah – just take care of yourself.
KS: Yeah.
KSI: Yeah.
DA: Um-hmm. That makes sense. Would you like to go back to Burma?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: Well he would like to go back because he has parents – his father (who is unhealthy), but
he cannot go back now: his childrens are still young, and money problems.
DA: Um-hmm. Can you communicate with your father?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: Yeah, he can communicate; and he also send like $100-200 a year.
DA: Um-hmm, to them; does it help?
KSI: Yeah.
DA: It helps them? Do you send pictures to each other? You know, does your father know
what your family looks like in pictures?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: There was a friend who went back to Burma, and then he send one picture, and now he
don’t know how to send it.
DA: Um-hmm; because he’s not there anymore?
KSI: Yeah.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
21
DA: What are you most proud of?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
[39:35]
KSI: He is very proud of his childrens that come here and live their life; he can’t imagine like,
seeing his childrens, like in the camp working in the jungle.
DA: Um-hmm, yeah. What are your dreams for your future, and the future of your family?
What are your dreams and what’s the dreams for your family?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: He don’t have his own dreams for himself, but he do have a dreams for his childrens to
like grow up and get better jobs (not like him). He would like to buy a house here for his
family.
DA: Um-hmm, yeah. That’s good. Is there anything that I haven’t asked, that you would like
me to know? Are there any other questions; is there anything you want me to know that I
haven’t asked?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: If you like, he can talk about his experience more.
DA: Yeah, yeah; I would like to hear more about your experiences.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
22
DAI: [Repeating statement in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
[43:27]
KSI: In Burma, in the city, he lived with his family there (five people in the family) –
[Speaking in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: He is the middle one. When he was younger he don’t have to do any work, and then when
he get older he had to work. And then his older brother, like somehow with the soldier,
got to refugee camp.
DA: So where is his brother now?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: Still in Thailand.
DA: Still in Thailand?
KSI: Oh no, Burma.
DA: In Burma? So not in the refugee camp?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: No.
DA: No? Okay. That’s all of my questions. David or Cami, do you have any questions?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
23
DG: Yes, I did. Let me see. So you said that when you first left Burma you tried to move to a
city in Thailand? Can you tell us a little more about that, and what that was like trying to
live in a city?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: It’s not in the big city; it’s just like in the kind of city in the jungle, so like a lot of
creatures.
DG: Okay. So why did you leave the city?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: There was only three months of work in a year, so it’s not enough. And then he cannot go
back to Burma, so he had to leave.
DA: Go back.
DG: Okay.
DA: Do you talk about this much with your kids – about your experiences in Burma? Do they
know?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: He did not talk about it because he don’t want his childrens feel like sorry or feel bad,
and then feel fear.
DA: Um-hmm.
DG: Now just one more question (for me): you mentioned that you were having a hard time
sending pictures to your family? Do you need help figuring out how to do that, or is there
some kind of problem just getting it to your family?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
24
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
[47:30]
KSI: Yeah, he would need help with it.
DA: Okay. Does your father have a computer?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: No.
DG: Okay, yeah; I know how to like send pictures through email, but if he doesn’t have a
computer, that’s going to be difficult.
DA: Um-hmm, yeah.
DGI: [Repeating statement in Burmese.]
DG: If you like, I can show you how to do that when we’re finished today.
DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.] [Laughs]
KSI: Well they don’t even have computers, so –
DA: He doesn’t have a computer, so it wouldn’t help?
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
DG: Well I do know that if you can send him a letter, I know you can take your photos to like,
I think Wal-Mart with print them out for you, so you can you know, just put them in a
letter and mail them. I haven’t had to do that in a long time, but I think Wal-Mart would
be able to help.
CD: I think it’s more of a problem of a physical address getting it –
DG: Ah.
CD: To him.
DA: Yeah.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
25
DG: Okay, I missed that detail.
DGI: Yeah. [Laughs]
[Repeating statement in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
DA: Cami, did you have any questions?
CD: Yes, I’m going to move a little bit closer to the microphone.
We’ve interviewed some other people that were also in the refugee camp, and they
mentioned (like you did) the need to obtain new clothing for Eid. I’m wondering where
you would get the new clothing from?
CDI: In the camp?
CD: Yeah, to celebrate. Yes, in the camp.
CDI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: He had to find money earlier, yeah, and then he would buy it for them.
CD: And would the clothing be purchased outside of the camp, or inside the camp?
CDI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: Inside of the camp. Inside of the camp.
CD: I wasn’t sure, maybe you picked up on this – are both of your parents alive, and they are
still in the camp, or just your father?
CDI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: They are both alive, but not in the camp – in Burma.
DA: In Burma; and it’s hard to get the things to Burma.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
26
CD: So you have family members still in Burma – are they more safe or less safe than if they
were in the refugee camp?
[50:53]
CDI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: They don’t have to worry about their lives; because they are old, when the civil war is
coming the soldier won’t take them because they cannot work anymore.
DA: So they’re older –
KSI: Yeah.
DA: And so they’re safer?
KSI: Um-hmm, they’re safer.
DG: That’s a terrible way to be safe.
DA: Um-hmm.
DG: I have just one more question. When you left your home in Burma, and then when you
left the camps, did you have any of your children with you at that time?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: When he come to Thailand, he had to walk like three days and three night. He is not
married yet; he got married in Thai camp.
DA: In Thai camp.
KSI: Um-hmm. So once he leave Thailand with his children.
DG: What was that like, having to move to a new place with little kids?
DGI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: It’s not that hard, he just want like all together safe, and get whatever he want to do.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
27
DG: Okay. Those are all the questions I have.
DA: Do your children participate at school in other things? You know, do you go to the school
to the things that they’re active in?
DAI: Here?
DA: Yeah, here in Logan?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: Yeah, he don’t participate, but when his children still go to school he force them to go to
school. And then only his wife participate in like parent-teacher conferences –
DA: Conferences; yeah, that makes sense. Do you like American food?
[54:29]
KS: Hmm?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.] [Laughing]
KSI: He like hamburger –
DA: A hamburger?
KSI: But it’s kind of expensive for him.
DA: It is expensive; it is expensive, yeah.
KS: The pizza a lot.
KSI: Pizza –
KS: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KSI: He says there it’s less expensive: he can buy a box and they’re whole family can eat.
DA: Yeah, pizza – everybody loves pizza!
[Laughter]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
28
KS: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KSI: If he only have to eat American food, it will be more expensive –
DA: Yeah, yeah. Do you grocery shop in Salt Lake, like most of your community does? Do
you have to go to Salt Lake to get your groceries?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: Yeah.
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: Like two months.
DA: Yeah, yeah; where is that grocery store?
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: He bought rice here, and in Salt Lake – I don’t even know the address –
DA: Yeah?
KSI: Like Redwood Road.
DA: What’s the name of the store?
KSI: There are like Cambodian store –
DA: Cambodian store?
KS: Chinese.
KSI: Pakistan and Chinese, I think.
DA: Yeah. I’m sorry you have to go so far.
DAI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: Well he had to go buy like half of the food over there, and then half of the food here.
DA: Here? Where do you like to shop here?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
29
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: Like Smith’s.
DA: Smith’s – that’s where we all go, yeah.
[Laughter]
Good; good. I don’t know that I have any more questions. You have been very delightful.
Your family is beautiful.
DG: Thank you.
DAI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
KS: Thanks.
DA: So we just have some forms to sign. Oh –
DAI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
KS: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
DA: This just says we can use the interview for the presentation.
DAI: Oh, this is already signed.
DA: Oh yeah, yeah; sorry. Yeah, I can’t give you that one [laughs].
KS: [Speaking in Burmese.]
DA: Yeah; this just says that we can use the recording: it will be stored at Utah State
University. And then do you mind if we take pictures?
DAI: [Repeating the question in Burmese.]
[57:58]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
30
KS: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KSI: Yeah, you can take pictures.
KS: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KSI: [Responding in Burmese.]
DG: And we do need you to fill out all the blanks, and we need to talk about that last one a
little bit – so when you’re done with the rest, we’ll talk about it.
[Background discussion between the folks present; both in English and Burmese.]
Okay, do we want to end the tape?
DA: So we’re just making sure we have consent to use the audio tape and the pictures in the
Special Collections, and he understands.
DAI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: Yeah.
DA: Yep.
KSI: [Speaking in Burmese.]
KS: [Speaking in Burmese.]
DA: Oh, we don’t need that one.
[Discussion between Ka Sin and translator in Burmese.]
KSI: Is it in English?
[More discussion between Ka Sin and translator in Burmese.]
KSI: I can’t read Burmese [laughs].
DG: Oh, you can’t?
KSI: I can’t.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
31
DA: It’s beautiful; I mean, look how pretty it is. Do your children – do you read Burmese? Do
you speak much Burmese?
[Discussion between Ka Sin and translator in Burmese as they fill out the information and
release forms.]
CD: I’m just going to take a few photos to make sure that the light is okay, if that’s alright?
DG: And email, if you have one.
DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
KSI: No, he doesn’t have email, so –
KS: Is that finished?
DG: That last one is – I would love if you could translate for me – that last blank is
restrictions: just if there is something you don’t want us to do, you can write it there.
DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
DG: So if you don’t want us to share your name, or share your photo, or something like that.
DGI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
KS: [Responding in Burmese.]
DA: Okay, this is the celebration – I know it’s in English, but maybe your kids could translate
that for you. This is what – thank you – this is where we will be showing the photos and
the presentation that we put together for the community.
DAI: [Repeating the statement in Burmese.]
[End part 1 of 2 – 60:02]
[Part 2 of 2 – 00:01]
KS: If he is, he will come.
DA: Okay, good. Thank you.
[More background discussion with the folks present.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ka
Sin
Page
32
[Speaking to Ka Sin’s child] So will you be a senior next year, or a junior? A senior? And
how do you like Harry Potter?
ZN: It’s a great story.
DA: It’s a great story; yeah, it’s my favorite [laughs].
CD: You don’t mind if I take some photos?
DG: Oh, the recording is still going.
DA: The recording needs to – yeah, we’re done with the recording. Thank you.
DG: Alright, we are done with the interview.
[End Part 2 of 2 – 00:50]]]> Ka Sin, 1967-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> Gross, Susan;]]> transcripts;]]> application/pdf;]]> 197263 Bytes]]> bur; kar; eng;]]> Text;]]> Burma; Thailand; Japan; California, Utah;]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> oral histories (document genres);]]> audio/mp3;]]> 48847104 Bytes]]> Sound;]]> 2010-2019; 21st century;]]> Burmese Muslim refugee; Family; Immigrant, Tradition, Cache Valley, Utah; Logan, Utah;]]> Ka Sin, 1967-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Allred, Deanna, 1965-;]]> Gross, Susan;]]> oral histories (document genres);]]> audio/mp3;]]> 60429828 Bytes]]> bur; kar; eng;]]> Sound;]]> Burma; Thailand; Japan; California, Utah;]]> Ya He Ma, Ka Ma Din, Har Be Bar, Maung Maung, Fareda, family, refugee, Burmese Muslim, Burmese, Muslim, Burma, Myanmar, violence, Thai camp, Thai refugee camp, Mae Sot immigration, Cache Valley, JBS Miller, Logan, immigrant housing, home, apartment, Voices: Refugee Project, folklore, Library of Congress, sewing, translator, life in America, dream]]> Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
1
CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET
Interviewee(s): Ya He Ma
Present: Ya He Ma (43 years); Har Be Bar (Translator; Ya He Ma’s eldest
daughter, 20 years); Ka ma Din, (Ya He Ma’s husband, 42 years); Fareda
(Ya He Ma’s youngest daughter, 16 years); Maung Maung (Ya He Ma’s
son, 5 years); Deanna Allred (recordist), Cami Dilg (interviewer); David
Giles (photographer)
Place of Interview: Ya He Ma’s apartment: 274 Riverbend Road, Apartment 4, Logan, Utah,
84321
Date of Interview: 18 May 2015
Language(s): Burmese; English
Translation:
Interviewer: Cami Dilg
Interpreter: Har Be Bar
Recordist: Deanna Allred
Photographer: David Giles
Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL
broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone
Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe Transcription Software
Transcribed by: Cami Dilg, 23 May 2015
Transcript Proofed by:
Brief Description of Contents: Ya He Ma, a Burmese Muslim refugee from the Mae Sot
Thailand refugee camp talks about living and working in Mae Sot, violence in the camp,
applying for immigration to the United States, arrival in Salt Lake City, Utah, working with
caseworkers and aides from the Salt Lake City mosque, working at JBS Miller (both she and her
husband Ka Ma Din are employed there), Har Be Bar’s role as translator in the family, and life in
America. Ya He Ma’s son Maung Maung and daughter Har Be Bar were in the front room during
the interview. Her husband Ka Ma Din joined part way through the interview. Her daughter
Fareda was in her bedroom until the interview concluded and we took pictures of the family.
Reference: CD = Cami Dilg (Interviewer)
HBB = Har Be Bar (Translator; Ya He Ma’s eldest daughter)
YHM = Ya He Ma (Interviewee)
KMD = Ka Ma Din (Interviewee’s husband)
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
2
F = Fareda (Ya He Ma’s youngest daughter)
MM = Maung Maung (Ya He Ma’s son)
DA = Deanna Allred (Recordist)
DG = David Giles (Photographer)
NOTE: The interview was conducted with an in-person interpreter. False starts, pauses, or
transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops in conversations are not included in
transcript. All additions and added information to transcript are noted with brackets.
TAPE TRANSCRIPTION
[01:30]
CD: Alright. Today is May 18th, 2015, and we are here in Ya He Ma’s home apartment. We
are with the USU Voices project, and I guess we’ll re-introduce us: I’m going to be
interviewing today; Deanna Allred is the recordist; and David Giles is the photographer,
and with me is Har Be Bar, and she’s going to be translating; and this is [referring to Har
Be Bar] Ya He Ma’s daughter, and Ya He Ma’s going to be the interviewee. Ok. We’ll
just be asking one question at a time, and Har Be Bar’s going to be translating for us, so
we want to get as much detail from you [Ya He Ma] as possible, so we will do it [the
interview] kind of slow.
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Nods in response.]
CD: Ok. If you could tell me, what is your full name and birth year?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese]
HBB: Full name is Ya He Ma. Then Birth date is January 1st,
YHM: 1972.
HBB: 1972.
[Maung Maung is speaking in the background]
CD: And what languages do you speak?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
3
YHM: Burmese
HBB: Burmese
CD: So tell me a little bit about your family.
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
HBB: She has six peoples in her family: And then her oldest daughters got married. She moved
out to Oregon; and then her, me, another daughter, is going to USU; and then her
youngest, younger daughter going to high school; and the little one will be in school next
year.
CD: K. And could you tell me, or describe the ethnic or religious community of which you are
apart?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.] Muslim [Responding in Burmese.]
HBB: Um just some kind of Muslim group. In a group.
CD: Ok. Tell me about your birth country—where were you born and . . . ?
KMD: [In the kitchen; begins participating in the conversation.] Burma [Responding in
Burmese.]
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
4
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um in Burma. She was born in Burma. And in Burma she had to work very hard to, like,
get food and stuff.
[05:05]
CD: What did you do for work in Burma?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: She just uh, like, shew? Like sewing? Sew? And then her father work, like go to, go out
and work. And didn’t get a lot of money. Yeah. She doesn’t, like, she was younger and
then there’s no other jobs, so she did not work.
CD: Hm. That makes sense.
HBB: Um hm.
CD: How many children were there in your family?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Six.
CD: Six. And where do you fall? Are you the youngest? The middle? The oldest?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: She’s the middle.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
5
CD: The middle.
YHM: Um hm.
CD: How long, how long did you live in Burma?
HBB: [Translating in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
HBB: Well she was born in 1972 and then 2000 . . . ?
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: 2000 she went to
YHM: [Speaks. I think she says: “Mayanmar. Mayanmar.”]
HBB: Refugee camp.
YHM: Refugee camp. Um hm.
HBB: So she don’t, she don’t know, like to guess how . . . ?
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm. Yeah. In 1972 to 2000.
CD: Why did you leave Burma?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
6
HBB: She cannot live there anymore; there’s civil wars and the problems, so, so she have to
move.
CD: And what was your experience like leaving? Was it difficult
HBB: [Begins translating in Burmese.]
CD: or easy?
HBB: Sorry
[HBB and CD laugh because they started talking at the same time]
CD: Pardon me. Pardon me.
HBB: Ok.
CD: Go [ahead.] Was it difficult or easy? Can you describe what your departure was like?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: It’s very difficult.
CD: And why was it difficult?
HBB: Um hm.
CD: I’m sure there’s probably many ways that it was.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: It’s a difficult and then she had to go with across jungle. And then take a, like, in the city,
kind of, well she take a car to, to get a ride, get a ride. And walking, and get a ride too.
CD: Did you go with your whole family, or were you alone?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
7
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: With the family.
CD: And where did you relocate to? Where did you move from Burma to?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm. Thai refugee camp.
CD: K. What was your experience like living in the refugee camp?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
[10:13]
HBB: Sometimes she just stay home, and then, there a group that give free foods. And then
when the time comes, like, the people in, like Mae Sot, in Thailand, they open a job for,
like, season. And then her husband and her go out work there, like, if they can. Um hm.
CD: For work did you, did you still sew? Or did you do something else in the camp?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: In the camp, there is no jobs, so just sew a little. Not much.
CD: How did you get the materials for you to sew?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
8
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm. She bought it.
CD: She bought it.
HBB: Um hm.
CD: In the camp, or did you have to go outside the camp?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: Hm.
HBB: Yeah, inside the camp.
CD: Inside the camp. You said that sometimes you were given, the that the food that you got
was free. What, what did you eat? Was it enough?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: It’s not enough. They just give, like, rice and oil. And for the, like, fish and meat and
stuff she have to find a way to buy those things.
CD: And the meat
HBB: Um hm.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
9
CD: and the fish would be purchased,
HBB: Yeah
CD: again, outside of the
HBB: Um hm.
CD: camp?
CD: Ok. What about the medical care that you received in the camp? Tell me about that.
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: There a hospital, and if you get sick you can go there
HBB: [asks Ya He Ma in Burmese to clarify her statement.]
YHM: Hm.
HBB: yeah [confirms] for free.
CD: And the hospital was
HBB: Um hm.
CD: in the camp?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Affirms.]
HBB: Yeah. In the camp.
CD: Did you have to go there often?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
10
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: No she didn’t ‘cause, uh um, [illegible] she didn’t have to go.
CD: That’s good.
CD: Did any of your children have to go there?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: No.
CD: What about the school? I, I’m assuming you didn’t attend, but maybe you did, if not,
could you tell me about, did your children go to school? What was that like?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm. Well she didn’t attend to school, but her childrens they don’t have to go to school.
It’s not like in here, if you want to you can go, and you don’t have to.
CD: So, your children did not go to school?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Yes. They did.
CD: Ok, but it wasn’t required?
HBB: Yeah, it wasn’t required.
CD: And what were the, I’m going to follow that up with another question later, but [makes a
notation in notebook to ask a follow-up question prompted by the previous one she just
asked. Moving on down her list of questions:] what were the day-to-day living
conditions? What was it like spending a day in the camp?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
11
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
[15:02]
HBB: She had to worry about the food, ‘cause it’s not enough, and then she has no money, so
every day that she had to worry about money.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Yeah, because of the war, there is no work. And here, she can work, and then, if she
want, like, clothing, she can go buy. She can go buy . . . Yeah, she got money.
CD: Hm. That’s the difference.
HBB: Um hm.
CD: How many, because, you got married in the camp, um, how many children did you have
while you were still living there in the Thai camp?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm. She, she got married in Burma, and then, her childrens are all born in Burma.
CD: Ohh. Ok.
KMD: [Speaking in Burmese in the background.]
CD: What about your religious holidays, or your worship, how could, how did that differ from
being in Burma, and then the camp?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
12
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: There’s no difference, because with her people, her community, they did, like, the same
thing.
CD: Ok.
HBB: And here also. It’s the same. They celebrate, the, the the religious holidays.
CD: Um hm. What did your celebrations look like in the camp then?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in English and Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
YHM: [Speaks in English and Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm. Yeah.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm. Um, the religious month, she had to fast for a month, and then after that, she had to,
like, cook for it—the holiday. And, and then the end of the holiday, she would, she
would, like, kill a cow and then serve the meat.
CD: Um hm.
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
13
HBB: If, only if she had money to, to buy cow.
[Har Be Bar and Cami laugh]
CD: I was going to ask you, how difficult was it to get a cow? Did you sometimes have to go
without a cow?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm. Well,
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Well, there’s people that who can buy cow, they will, like, give people that who don’t
have, who can’t buy, so, they share meat.
YHM: Um hm.
CD: That’s very nice.
HBB: Um hm. Yeah.
CD: What was the political climate towards refugees, of the, yeah, towards refugees? Was it,
does that make sense [asking Har Be Bar]?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
14
HBB: Yeah.
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: He’s [Ka Ma Din] helping [laughs].
CD: That’s, that’s fine.
[20:00]
DG: Is that your dad?
HBB: Yeah, that’s my dad.
DA: What’s his name?
HBB: Ka Ma Din.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
15
DA: Ka Ma Din?
HBB: Um hm. Hm.
CD: Nice to meet you?
HBB: K-a, M-a, D-i-n [spelling his name].
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.] But the government there, uh, didn’t help at all. They just, like,
looked down to, to them.
DA: Hm. Um hm.
HBB: Yeah, they didn’t help. At all. That’s what he’s trying to say.
CD: Ok. That makes sense. Describe to me your feelings about, about safety in the camp.
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Sometimes she feel like she’s not safe because um people might come to the camp and
then burn the houses and then with the gun come, can come and shoot them.
CD: Did you ever have this happen to you or see this happen to someone else?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese. (Ka Ma Din has)]
HBB: Hm.
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
16
HBB: Hm.
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm. It didn’t happen to them but they have seen that happen to others.
DA: Hm.
HBB: Yeah, the, they will come and kill and, like, shoot them, and then burn their houses.
CD: How did you learn about the U.S. refugee program?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: U.I.
YHM: U.I.
YHM: U.I.
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: There is a group called the U.I. help the, the refugee camp, and then they would they
announce them: “If, if you guys want to come to U.S. you have to register.” And then if
you don’t want to then you don’t have to. So, that’s how they learned it.
CD: Ok. How did you apply? Did you have any help?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: There was, there was a translator that helped them with how many families they have.
And then, yeah, basically how to register, like, with the translator.
CD: So what about your parents? Where, where did they live?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
17
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Her mom already passed away; only her dad lived in then Burma.
CD: He’s in Burma still?
HBB: Yeah.
CD: And why is he still there?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm. Well, he’s not in the camp. He just in Burma. And then he’s very old so he cannot
come to U.S.
CD: Maybe going back to this question about getting help to apply for the refugee camp. You
said you had a translator. Describe for me the process? Was it difficult or easy? And how
long did it take for the application to go through?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
[25:11]
HBB: It took, it took like, three months, because there are a lot of people. And then they have to
do the training to, like, how to get, when you get in the plane, what do you have to do,
like, they give, like, training for everything; also use, using the bathroom too. Like, sort
of that stuff.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
18
CD: So, preparing them culturally
HBB: Yeah. Um hm.
CD: for going to wherever they were going to.
HBB: Um hm.
CD: And where did those trainings take place?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Yeah, at the camp.
CD: At the camp. Did the, who did, who conducted the training?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: There are people from the U.S., and, like Americans and Thai people too.
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm. In one training there are two people, like, one American and the one the who can
speak English. Like the translator.
CD: And if this is too personal [laughs], but you said that you had to be trained, like, things
like, how
HBB: Um Hm.
CD: to use the bathrooms?
HBB: Um Hm.
CD: What is the, what’s the difference?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
19
HBB: Um, I know it so . . . [Har Be Bar does not need to ask her mother because she knows the
answer to my question.
CD: Ok. You go ahead.
HBB: Um hm. Yeah, for that, in the camp we just only use the water.
CD: Um Hm.
HBB: And then here they use toilet paper.
CD: Um Hm.
HBB: So yeah,
CD: Um Hm.
HBB: we don’t, you guys don’t use water, so we trained like that.
CD: Yeah, that’s true. Interesting.
HBB: Um hm. Yeah.
[all laugh]
CD: I personally think it’s better to use water
[all laugh]
YHM: [speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [speaks in Burmese.] Yeah.
CD: Alright. What other things, that you just didn’t know about before, or you know, for the
training, can you think of any?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
20
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Yeah, basically the training is for the plane. Like, inside of the plane you have to wear
seatbelt. And then you cannot just walk around. You have to stay in the seat, and then if
you need, like, help, and then you want to throw up, like, what do you need to do.
CD: So, pretty standard though, I guess [laughs],
HBB: [laughs]
CD: for anybody who is a first-time flyer.
HBB: Yeah [laughs].
[Cami and Har Be Bar laugh]
CD: Alright. And how long were you in the Thai camp?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese]
HBB: Seven years
CD: Seven years. Wow.
CD: Where did you first arrive in the U.S.?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm. Uh hm. Salt Lake City.
CD: Salt Lake City?
HBB: Um hm.
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Yeah then case, caseworker um, like, send them here [I am assuming she means Cache
Valley], because they have job here for them.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
21
CD: How long were you in Salt Lake before you moved to Logan?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Six months.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese
CD: Six months. What was, what was that first day, like in, in the United States, or that first
um, first week, or the seven months? Could you tell me a bit about that?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese; laughs]
[30:01]
HBB: Well, um, like, the first week they slept day, and then, like, nighttime they will wake up
and then cook and eat,
[Har Be Bar, Ya He Ma, and Cami laugh]
HBB: which is funny.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Yeah, because now it’s different time.
CD: Um hm.
HBB: It would be day here and then night over . . .
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
22
CD: Um hm. Um hm. Anything else you’d like to share [I meant anything else to add to my
question I just posed, but Ya He Ma misunderstood me to mean that I was asking her if
she wanted to keep interviewing]?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm hm. Would, what else do you have more questions?
CD: What do I mean?
HBB: Um hm. No.
CD: Oh!
HBB: What do you have, like,
CD: Oh! For questions?
HBB: left?
CD: Um, we have a few more.
HBB: Um hm.
CD: Are you alright if we, if we ask some more or are you tired?
[Cami laughs]
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Yeah.
CD: Ok. Um. You worked, you have a caseworker here, when you first arrived. Was he or she
helpful?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Yeah, he’s helpful.
CD: Hm. Did you get, did you receive aid from any, anyone else? A religious organization or
a government organization?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
23
HBB: Um, like help from . . . ?
CD: Help or aid. Yeah.
HBB: Um hm.
CD: Help.
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Yeah, there was a religious group that came, and then give cloth and food. Then they also
give their number. Like, if we need, we need help they can call.
CD: Do you remember the religious group?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Yeah, he remember. It’s in still in Salt Lake. And then it’s at the Mosque called [illegible,
she may be saying Khadeeja.]
CD: Ok. Through the Mosque?
HBB: Um hm.
CD: Do you ever go back there to Salt Lake to visit that mosque?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
24
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Yeah he did, like, once a year when the Eid comes.
CD: Still do you?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: yes still.
CD: Do you have friends that, or acquaintances there that you meet when you go back?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Yes.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
CD: Was there anything that could have been improved? For those people that helped you, do
you wish they would have done something else, or something more?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese].
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
25
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Well, um, they don’t have to, like, improve, like, improve themselves. Um it’s enough
from them. Like, they give free food and clothes. The shirts. Stuff.
CD: So it felt like
HBB: Yeah.
CD: it it was enough?
HBB: Um hm. Yeah, it was enough. And then they also, like, um, talk to them, like, don’t feel
bad in this country, its, like, a good country. Then they, the people are in here, like, very
nice. Like culturally. Yeah.
CD: How long have you lived in Cache Valley, or Logan?
YHM: [Responds in Burmese].
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese].
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
[35:02]
HBB: Seven years.
CD: Seven years [laughs]?! So the same amount of time that you spent, that you spent in the
camp.
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Yeah. Um hm.
CD: Wow.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
26
CD: What, what do you do here in, in Logan? What, what is it like for your family?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese].
HBB: Um hm.
YHM: [Responds in Burmese].
HBB: Um she’s working at Miller [known as the E. A. Miller Plant, or the JBS Plant. I’m not
sure what the official name is; my research gave several names.]. And then also her
husband work. Yeah, at the beginning only her husband work, and then now she work,
just only, like, [Begins speaking in Burmese to her mother.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Like, yeah, almost a month. Like, nine, nine months.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Oh, not a month! A year! Yeah.
CD: So just started?
HBB: Yeah just . . .
CD: This is your first year here? Working there?
HBB: Um hm.
HBB: No, like, no. [Begins speaking in Burmese to her mother.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: She work there like one, one year before. Yeah.
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
27
HBB: And then she got pregnant, so she quit. And then now she started again.
CD: Ohhh. Wow.
CD: So what do you do at Miller?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese]
HBB: Um, when they already take out the skin. And then she would, like, clean the body of the
cow.
David: Eew.
DA: Um hm.
CD: Wow. Hard work?
YHM: Yeah. Hard.
CD: Wow. How many uh . . .
YHM: Hour?
CD: Yeah. How many hours and how many cows do you do? Every hour?
YHM: Today, [Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: Hm.
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: Hm.
HBB: 1800 cows per day. And then
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
28
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: seven and a half hours.
CD: Hmm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: That’s a lot of cows
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Like, over a thousand cows.
CD: Hm.
DG: Wow.
CD: Are you, do you work by yourself? Do you work with other women? Other men?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
29
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm. Um hm.
HBB: Oh with mens and womens around her.
CD: Um hm. Is the job that you do typically done by women or men?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Yeah, that work it’s not that hard, so it’s for women.
CD: Um hm. Are there many women that work at Miller? I guess compared to how many men
are there?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Yeah there a lot of womens, but mens are, like, more mens.
DA: Um hm. Um hm.
CD: Do you, do you ever, Oh sorry go ahead [I interrupted Har Be Bar here, but she
acknowledged she had nothing more to say]!
HBB: Um hm.
CD: Do you ever see your husband at work?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: No.
CD: No. You don’t . . . ?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
30
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: It’s different times.
CD: Ohh. So what . . . ?
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: He works more hour.
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Like, nine hours a day. And then, yeah. And the lunch time is different.
CD: Um hm.
HBB: So they never see each other.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
[40:01]
HBB: in the same.
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: She work in hot department and then he work in cold department.
CD: And what do you do there [asking Ka Ma Din]?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: He take out the, like, something from the skin. Not skin, but from the meat.
CD: Um hm.
DA: Um hm.
HBB: Yeah.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
31
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um, like, three, like whole meat, in the minute.
CD: Oh. Three, three from the knife?
HBB: Yeah. Um hm.
DA: Wow.
CD: Three cuttings?
HB: Yeah, three cuttings.
CD: And because you work at, you’re working different shifts, do you, do you travel there
together in the morning, or do, how do you get to work?
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Yeah it’s different. Um, they go, like. They didn’t go together. He go with his car and
then she go with other, like, coworker’s car.
CD: And are, are they friends from, um, this housing area here that you go? Or does
somebody pick you up from somewhere else?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Yeah, from, uh well, she live, like, very, pretty close from here.
CD: Um hm. K.
CD: Is this someone you met at work? Or knew before?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Mmm.
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
32
HBB: Yeah. She, she met her before she worked there.
CD: Do you feel like, do you feel included in the Logan community? Do you feel like your
family is accepted?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
[Maung Maung is talking in the background, as well as Ka Ma Din]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Yeah, they feel like part of the community.
CD: Is there anything that the, the, that you wish the community would do to make you feel
more welcome? Or things that you wish you could, or your family could, participate in
that would, would, would help you feel more welcome?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
33
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: Hm.
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um, well, she’s living here, it’s um, they feel like part of the community, and then they
don’t have to like, they don’t have to improve.
CD: Ok.
HBB: Everything’s fine.
CD: How, how is your home here different than the one in the Thai camp? Or in Burma?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: It’s different, like, way different.
CD: Can you explain?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Well there . . .
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
34
HBB: Um hm.
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm. Um, well, it’s, the house is made of um bamboo tree. And they don’t have couch
and beds. And they only have to sleep on the floor with pillow. And with the, uh they
make canopy too, because there are, like, bugs still. Yeah.
[45:16]
DA: That was my question about bugs.
[Cami laughs]
[The Muslim Call to prayer sounded from the computer in the room.]
CD: Is it . . . ?
David: Is it the call to prayer?
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Yes.
CD: Should we . . . ?
DA: Do you need us to go?
HBB: Well, it’s ok. Well this time it’s fine.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Well, we are supposed to be, like, praying but
DG: We, we can step outside if you need to, if you need us to.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
35
HBB: Well, when that come, we have to listen,
DA: Ok.
HBB: so you can stay here.
CD: We will, we will stay if that’s alright.
HBB: Um hm. [Speaks in Burmese.]
[Maung Maung is speaking in the background while the call to prayer is taking place.]
HBB: Ok it’s done now.
CD: Thanks.
HBB: Um hm.
CD: Could you tell me about your experiences with your landlord?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm. Um hm.
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um, well, she don’t have much experience with him because she lived in another
apartment for six years, so. Just only, about . . .
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: a year in here.
DG: Ok.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
36
CD: How, how was the landlord in the other place you were living for six years?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: She’s a
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Yeah, she’s good. Yeah, she’s helpful.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
[50:01]
HBB: Um, it’s not landlord. Like a manager.
CD: Manager.
HBB: Yeah.
CD: Mm hm.
HBB: We never see landlord, landlord
CD: Ok.
HBB: in that apartment.
CD: K. Ummm, what would you like the people of Logan to know about you and your
family? Your ethnic group?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: Hm.
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Well, before they do, but now they don’t because, um well, they can handle, like, their
situation them, themselves, because now, like, I can help them with the letters that come. Yeah.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
37
CD: Oh the, the letters in the mail?
HBB: Yeah. Mm hm.
CD: Oh. Like the bills and
HBB: Yeah. Bills and stuff.
CD: everything like that? So, you don’t need, they don’t need any help?
HBB: No. No Help.
CD: Ok. Would you, would you like to go back to Burma?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: She would just like to visit. She don’t like to go live there, because, well, she has a father,
so she would like to go visit.
CD: I see. Do you ever get to talk to him or contact him? Your father?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
HBB: Yeah, she called and . . .
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: And she sometimes send money to him.
CD: What are you most proud of?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
38
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm. Um, they’re very happy that they could come here. And then people are here,
like, very fair, fairly. And then the policy, yeah the policy, they like the policy here.
Yeah, because people are here don’t look down to them. Then, yeah, from camp or
Burma, well the people, like, looked down. They don’t have money or anything. It’s way
different.
CD: What are your dreams for your future?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Her dream is to buy a house. And then his dream is, like, to raise his, his childrens. Like,
finish college. Yeah, that’s pretty much it.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
39
CD: K. Those are, I’m done with my questions. Is there anything else you’d like to share with
us? That I haven’t asked you about?
[55:06]
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm. Hm. [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: She don’t have anything to say, but, for him, he’s happy that you guys came and asked
these questions. He’s very proud of them.
CD: We’re very grateful that you gave, that you let us.
DA: Thank you.
CD: Do any of you, I’m going to ask my colleagues if they have any follow-up questions from
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
CD: from the . . .
DA: I do. Do have questions?
DG: Ah yes, I do.
DA: Want to go first?
DG: Ok.
CD: So, go ahead, David.
DG: So, first, we spoke to Har Be Bar this morning [during Har Be Bar’s interview], and she
said that you, you organized the dishes [in the kitchen; the dishes are arranged in a
pattern for beauty; see photos.]? We, we it looked, it looked very, like
DA: It was beautiful.
DG: Yeah.
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
DG: Now um, let me see. My next question is, I noticed you have Arabic posters on the walls.
Can you read Arabic? Or is it just for decoration?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
40
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Well, yeah they know how to read.
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Um hm.
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
DG: Is he, is he reading the text?
HBB: Hm?
DG: Is, is he reading the text or . . . ?
WBB: Well, that text is, it says, “Allah.” It’s, like, our god.
DA: Um hm. Um hm.
DG: I see.
HBB: Um hm. That one is Mecca. It’s in Saudi Arabia.
DA: Right.
DG: Um hm.
CD: Yeah.
DG: K. Awesome. Um, let me see. You said now that, you said now that you’re in this
apartment you have a couch and a bed. Um, do you prefer sitting on the couch, sleeping
on the bed? Or do you prefer what you had in Burma?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
41
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Uh, yeah, she prefer a couch and beds.
DG: Ok. Ok now, uh, my last question: You said when you came here you got to a, you were
given a number to call if you ever needed help with something? And, I’m just curious,
did you ever call that number? And if so, what happened?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: No. He never called.
DG: Ok. Those are my questions.
DA: Ok. Where in Oregon does your other daughter live?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: Portland.
HBB: Portland.
YHM: Portland. Portland.
KMD: Portland. Portland.
HBB: Portland.
DA: Portland!
HBB: Portland.
DA: Yeah. Oh yay!
CD: I have family there.
[all laugh]
DA: I love Portland.
CD: My dad is from Oregon.
DA: Yeah. Is she happy there?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
42
YHM: Yeah.
DA: Yes. She’s likes it there. Ok. Who has bigger bugs? Burma or America?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm. [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
43
HBB: There’s a jungle, so it’s bigger over there. Here, like, they never see the big [illegible
(bird?)].
DA: How big is the biggest bug?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm. [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Hm.
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
[1:00:10]
HBB: Bird
[Laughs]
DA: Yeah
HBB: [laughs] Not bird. Not bird.
[Har Be Bar and Deanna laugh.]
YHM: [Speaks in Burmese.]
HBB: Like you mean, like what kind of, like,
DA: Yeah. Like,
HBB: bugs
DA: yeah. So the jungle I would think
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
44
HBB: Um hm.
DA: has different, different animals and different
HBB: Um hm.
DA: insects. You know? What were they like? They, I mean, ‘cause you say like you had to
have a, a bug shield or something?
HBB: Um hm.
DA: So from what? Like what? Little ones? Big ones?
HBB: Yeah! Um we, we had the bug, like, the canopy?
DA: Yeah! Canopy!
HBB: Yeah. Um it’s for the little bugs.
DA: The little, like, mosquitos and ?
HBB: Yeah the mosquito.
DA: Yeah.
HBB: Yeah.
DA: Ok. Um. Ok. This is, it’s ok if this is a question that we don’t want to talk about, but, in
America women usually live longer than men. But I hear a lot of you say, “My mother
has passed away.” Is there a reason for that? A reason why? It’s just different.
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: [Speaks in Burmese.]
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
[1:02:06.4] First file ends
[00:01] Second file begins:
KMD: [Speaks in Burmese.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
45
HBB: Because there are, like, no good hospitals
DA: No hospitals
HBB: and then by giving birth
DA: Um hm.
HBB: they pass away mostly.
DA: Um hm. That’s what I wondered. Ok. I think that’s all of my questions.
CD: I guess I had one more [laughs].
[Har Be Bar laughs]
CD: Because we talked about [laughs] furnishings in the home,
HBB: Um hm.
CD: I know you all have mats like this.
HBB: Um hm.
CD: Do you get them from the Asian market? Or where, where do you get these mats from?
DA: They’re beautiful.
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Yeah, from
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Asian Store.
CD: Um hm. ‘Cause I’ve seen them down there [West Valley area in a Polynesian store],
HBB: Um hm.
CD but I didn’t know [laughs]
HBB: Yeah, we all have it.
DA: Yeah.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
46
HBB: Each of our [selves? Illegible].
DA: Yeah. It’s very beautiful.
HBB: Um hm.
CD: Do you have mats like, like this in Burma? Or the Thai camp? Or did you just start
getting them . . . ?
DA: ‘Cause you came here?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Yeah. We do have in Burma. And in the camp.
DA: Um hm. So this is traditional?
HBB: Yeah. Yeah, traditional.
CD: Beautiful. Alright. Ok, well that, that concludes our interview. Thank you
DA: Yeah,
CD: very much.
DA: Thank you very much.
CD: We have forms.
DA: Yeah.
CD: Yeah a couple forms
DA: Um hm.
CD: to sign. Release forms. We’re hoping that you’ll, we can use this information. We’ll put it
in the Utah State library—in the archives. And we are also going to create an exhibit about your
community.
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
CD: And we hope that you can attend the event? This is the invitation. Um, I’ll put my phone
number on the back if you need any help getting there—if you need a ride there. We’d like you
to bring your family and your friends if you . . .
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
47
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
DG: Now uh, as you guys are filling out the forms and stuff, would it be ok if I took a few
pictures?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
KMD: [Responds in Burmese.]
DG: Ok.
[All laugh. Ya He Ma seems a little nervous—Worried about how she looks.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
CD: That’s alright.
DA: You look beautiful.
[Cami laughs]
DA: You look beautiful. So shall I, can I stop the recording? Are we done?
CD: Oh, I guess I did have, I have one more question,
DA: Ok good.
CD: I do
DA: Um hm.
CD: Do you, do you still sew at all for, for your family, or do you sew, sew, um, for yourself
[I interrupt Har Be Bar’s translation]?
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
CD: Sorry
HBB: [Translates in Burmese.]
YHM: [Responds in Burmese.]
HBB: Well now she start working so she didn’t sew that much.
DA: Um hm.
CD: Alright, now I’m done.
DA: Ok. We will stop the recording now.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Ya
He
Ma
Page
48
[03:14]]]> Ya He Ma, 1972-;]]> Giles, David, 1986-;]]> Har Be Bar, 1995-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> Dilg, Cami, 1986-;]]> transcripts;]]> application/pdf;]]> 234621 Bytes]]> bur; mya; eng;]]> Text;]]> Burma; Thailand; Salt Lake City, Utah; Logan, Utah; Cache Valley, Utah]]> Eritrea; Eritreans; Families; Refugees; Immigration; Immigrants; Malta; Logan, UT; Culture; Tigrinya; English; Education; International Refugee Commission; Refugee Camps; Work; Holidays; Eritrea-- Food; Seltene Gebrelasie Gebretinsa-- Interviews]]> Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Seltene
Gebreselasie
Gebretinsa
Page
1
CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET
Interviewee(s): Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa
Present: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa, Hilary Warner-Evans, Berhane Debesai
Abraha, Heidi Williams, Megan Olsan
Place of Interview: Logan Public Library, Logan, Utah
Date of Interview: May 16, 2015
Language(s): Tigrinya
Translation:
Interviewer: Hilary Warner-Evans
Interpreter: Berhane Debesai Abraha
Recordist: Heidi Williams
Photographer: Magen Olsen
Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL
broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone
Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe with PowerPlayer foot pedal.
Transcribed by: Susan Gross, May 22, 2015
Transcript Proofed by: Hilary Warner-Evans, May 24, 2015
Brief Description of Contents: Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa tells about his birthplace in Eritrea, a little bit about
his family and his religion. He talks about his 11 year service in the army as an impetus to flee his country and
become a refugee. He discusses his journey as a refugee, first in Malta, and the process to eventually come to the
United States. He talks about adjusting to living in the United States, from taking classes to learn English and
working to support himself. He talks about his wife and children he left behind, and his hopes of being able to have
them join him in the United States.
Reference: HW = Hilary Warner-Evans
HWI = Hilary Warner-Evans’ words interpreted by translator
SG = Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa
SGGI: = Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsa’s words interpreted by translator
NOTE: The interview was conducted with the assistance of a live translator, Berhane Debesai
Abraha. The interpreter was there for the whole period. False starts, pauses, or transitions in
dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcript. All
additions and added information to transcript are noted with brackets.
TAPE TRANSCRIPTION
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Seltene
Gebreselasie
Gebretinsa
Page
2
[00:01]
HWE: Okay, it is May 16th, 2015. This is Hilary Warner-Evans interviewing Seltene
Gebreselasie Gebretinsa.
SGG: Yeah.
HWE: And he is a member of the Eritrean community here, in Logan, Utah. We are at the Logan
Public Library, in the Temple Fork Room. And Berhane Debesai Abraha is translating
into Tigrinya. And also present are Heidi Williams, recording, and Magen Olsen, doing
photography.
Can you – we’ve actually already gone over part of this – but can you give me your full
name and your birth year?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: His birthday is January 1, 1975.
[Speaking in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: And his name is Seltene Gebreselasie.
HWE: Okay. And can you tell me about your family?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: Okay, no problem; I can tell you about my family: I was born in east Africa, in Eritrea,
and my father is Gebreselasie Gebretinsa. Okay.
SGG: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: And I was born in southern zone, it’s called Zoba Debub in Tigrinya, and the place he
was born in Segeneiti – it’s a small village.
[Speaking in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: It’s around 70 kilometers south of the capital city Asmara.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Seltene
Gebreselasie
Gebretinsa
Page
3
SGG: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: I was born and raised in Segeneiti, and when my age reached 18, I went for National
Service.
SGG: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: And I have been in the army for around 11 years, and life was not comfortable for me.
And I just left the country and moved some other place.
HWE: Do you have any brothers or sisters?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: Yes.
[Speaking in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: Yeah, he has one sister, and there are four boys. Aand there was another brother –
[Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: Yeah, he died in the war with Ethiopia before 1994 – the War of Liberation with
Ethiopian’s army; he died in the struggle.
HWE: And are you the only member of your family here, in the United States?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: Yeah, he’s the only one.
HWE: What languages do you speak?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Seltene
Gebreselasie
Gebretinsa
Page
4
SGGI: He speaks Tigrinya.
HWE: And what ethnic or religious community do you consider yourself to be a part of?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: He is a Christian; he is a follower of Eritrean Orthodox Church.
HWE: Can you tell me a little bit about Eritrea?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[06:31]
SGGI: Eritrea is a beautiful and comfortable country to live, but at this time because of the
situation of the war and the political system, it’s not becoming favorable for the people to
live in it.
SGG: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: Yeah, at this time Eritrea is kind of in a war, so everybody is in the army for ten years or
more; so people cannot live their life, cannot support their family – so everybody is
leaving to help themself and to improve their life and the life of their family. So that’s
why I move out of the country: in search of a good life, and better life.
HWE: How long did you live in Eritrea?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: He was living in Eritrea starting the date of his birth, 1975, up to 2008.
HWE: Can you tell me about the experience of leaving?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: Yeah, I am married and I have two children; since I was in the army I cannot support
them, I cannot do anything. And it was for a long time. So I want to improve my life and
my family’s lives. And I leave Eritrea to the Sudan’s border; then from Sudan he went to
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Seltene
Gebreselasie
Gebretinsa
Page
5
Libya, through the desert there. He crosses the Mediterranean to Malta; and from Malta
he came to the United States.
HWE: Did you spend any time in a camp while you were coming over?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: He was in Malta from 2008, up to 2012, under the Refugee Commission.
HWE: What was it like being with the Refugee Commission in Malta?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: So Malta’s refugee camp was kind of good, because you are free to move out. So he was
not in the camp, he was working in Malta –
[Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya]
SGG: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: He was working with some farmers on the farm. So while he was a refugee, until he
comes to the United States, he was working earning money, and he was supporting his
family and himself. So they didn’t have anything to worry in Malta, because they could
work and they were working.
[10:57]
HWE: So how did you – when you were working on a farm back in Eritrea.
HWEI: Eritrea.
HWE: Right?
HWEI: [Repeating statement in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: Yeah, I was born in a farming family, so I was raised with them – so I was working on a
farm.
[Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Seltene
Gebreselasie
Gebretinsa
Page
6
HWE: Can you talk about the food or the medical care that you received when you were in the
refugee camp in Malta?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: Okay, in the refugee camp in Malta, for the first seven months we were under the
Refugee Commission until they finish all our registration and until they check and
double-check our information. So they were providing us food, the house was clean; they
give us shelter, clothes and bed. But after seven months, when they finish the registration
stuff, we were allowed to leave the camp and to work. So after that I was working and
earning money myself, and I was living by myself.
HWE: What kind of work did you do?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: He was working with the local farmers.
HWE: Okay.
SGGI: So they got a big farm. He was working with them.
HWE: How did you celebrate, like, holidays when you were living in the camp?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[14:06]
SGGI: Okay, he say it was okay; Maltans, they have a lot of holidays – and we celebrate all
holidays with them. And their biggest holiday is Christmas, and we were celebrating it
with the people.
SGG: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: And their second holiday was Easter, and we are celebrating it with them.
HWE: What kinds of things did you do for Christmas and Easter?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Seltene
Gebreselasie
Gebretinsa
Page
7
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: Yeah, he is saying he was so close with the family he was working with; they were kind
of parents for me. And for the purpose of work he was rented in front, close to them; so
most of the time, 25% of the time, he was celebrating the holiday with them.
HWE: And how did that differ from how you celebrated it back in your home country?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: It’s kind of the same – they didn’t have any difference.
HWE: Okay. So did you eat like any particular foods, or do anything particular?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: He said in Malta they kind of live in extended family, so most of the time on holidays
they don’t cook – they just go out all together. So since he was working with them, they
always take him with them, and they go out and order food and get it; they don’t cook at
all.
HWE: Okay. And did you do anything else besides go out to eat? Did you go to church or
anything like that?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[17:51]
SGGI: Okay. In Malta they always go to church Saturday evening and Sunday morning. So the
church was close to my apartment, and I kind of know their language at that time – so I
used to go to their church.
HWE: Now was it like an Orthodox church?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: No, Catholic.
HWE: Okay.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Seltene
Gebreselasie
Gebretinsa
Page
8
SGGI: It was a Catholic church.
HWE: So was that very different for you to go to a Catholic church, instead of Orthodox?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: He said for him it doesn’t make any difference because in his home town, tthe place he
grow up, the majority of the people are Catholics, and few are Orthodox; so he knows
what Catholic is, and their culture.
HWE: And in the camp – were there other people from Eritrea there?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: A lot.
HWE: Was that the majority of the people there?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: The majority of the refugees were Somalians and people from West Africa.
HWE: So did you end up celebrating at all with other people from your home country? Or did
you mostly just go with the people you were working for?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: Yeah, he was saying the refugee’s holidays – they are always the same, so he was
celebrating it with the family he was working; but the public holidays – he was
celebrating them with the people from Eritrea.
HWE: What kinds of public holidays did you celebrate?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[21:39]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Seltene
Gebreselasie
Gebretinsa
Page
9
SGGI: He said the religious holidays are the same, so he would sometime celebrate them with
the family he was working, but holidays like May 24th (that means it’s Eritrean
Independence Day) and June 20 (it’s kind of Memorial Day – we call it the Martyrs’
Day) – he was celebrating it with the Eritreans.
HWE: And how did you celebrate those holidays?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: Most of the people – after they were allowed to leave the camp in war, they rented their
own apartment, so they would celebrate the whole island. So when there is holidays they
rent a big hall, and they prepare food and drinks, and they celebrate it together.
HWE: And what kinds of food and drinks did you have?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: For the foods they buy meat and some of them they prepare ingera, and they just make
food just like the way we do at home. And for the drink they just buy beer.
HWE: So for the meat would you get like a whole animal?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: So they were buying beef from groceries.
HWE: Okay. And did you get the beer from the grocery too?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [Laughs]
SGGI: Yeah, that is the only way – you can buy it from groceries [laughs].
HWE: [Laughs]
So how did Malta feel about the refugees coming in from Eritrea?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Seltene
Gebreselasie
Gebretinsa
Page
10
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[25:06]
SGGI: Malta is a small island, its population is around half million, 500,000. So at first, when
the refugees come to their area, they didn’t like it because it’s a small country, and there
are a lot of refugees; but some time they get used to them, so they were friendly. Then
after they get their refugee status, American Immigration System, they came to them and
they give them asylum to the United States.
HWE: So did you feel safe when you were there?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: He says the country is so nice – it’s a free country, nobody talks to you, nobody even
asks, nobody stops you. But when they first arrived in Malta, the people they don’t like
them; sometimes even if they see another Eritrean or another refugee on the bus they just
leave the whole bus. But after some time they get used to them Then they didn’t care
anymore.
HWE: And how did you learn about the U.S. refugee program?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: There was a refugee office over there, a refugee commission office, so he go over there to
the office, and there are a lot of refugee places to go: Europe, Canada, America (or
United States of America), and Australia. You choose which area you want to go, you
just go and you settle with them and they take care of your process.
HWE: Okay, so you can choose which country you want to go to?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[28:42]
SGGI: They ask you question and if you want to go to Germany, France, Holland (or the
Netherlands), Slovakia, and Hungary. I don’t want to go that places, so I tell them that I
am not going to these places and they give me opportunity to go to the United States.
HWE: And how did you apply to do that?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Seltene
Gebreselasie
Gebretinsa
Page
11
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: Yeah, at that time, the United States were taking a lot of Eritrean refugees, so as soon as I
know the United States taking refugees, I went there and applied. And it took me around
seven years to process everything. And I did my interview and they gave me the
congratulation paper. That means they accepted him. And after that he came to the United
States.
HWE: So did someone in the office help you do that process, with all the paperwork and stuff?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: Yeah, in their office they have a translator, a paid translator, so I go through the process.
In Malta at the Immigration Office you cannot do it the way we do it in Africa, because
in Africa you can bribe stuff like that, but in Malta you cannot do that; you have to go
through all the process. They provide you translator, and they check everything, your
background and other stuff. And when you pass everything they tell you when you come.
When you finish your immigration process, then when they approve you, you just come
to the United States.
[31:34]
HWE: And can you tell me a little bit about the journey to the United States?
HWEI: You mean the airplane journey?
HWE: Yeah, or how you go from Malta to the U.S.?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: Okay. So when all their process is done, when their flight is scheduled to show up in
Malta, the Refugee Commission – they took them to the airport; they put them in the
airplanes and they showed them their chair and they told them, “Good luck, have a nice
trip.” And from Malta, they fly to England for a transit. And in England some people
were waiting for them – and the same thing: these people, they took them to the next
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Seltene
Gebreselasie
Gebretinsa
Page
12
airplane, and they put them on the airplane (they same the thing), “Good luck, nice trip.”
And after that, from England they landed in New York.
HWE: And were there other Eritrean refugees going on the plane with you?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: There were four Eritreans and three Somalians on the plane.
HWE: So you came to New York first. Did you fly, then, directly from New York to Salt Lake?
Or did you spend time in another place in the U.S.?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[34:51]
SGGI: Okay, when they come from Malta, their destination was not New York – it was Las
Vegas, Nevada; but they stayed two days in New York because the weather was bad.
Planes could not fly that day; so they stayed two days. Then after the weather got normal,
they flew to Las Vegas, Nevada, for their final destination. And he stayed three months in
Las Vegas.
[Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
HWE: What time of year was it when you were flying?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: It was December 7, 2012.
HWE: What were the first months like in Las Vegas?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Seltene
Gebreselasie
Gebretinsa
Page
13
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: He said, Las Vegas is okay, but I didn’t like it – it’s too hot. But I stayed there for three
months because he was going to English classes. After he finished the first three months
of the class, then he moved to – [speaking Tigrinya to interviewee]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: He moved to Logan.
HWE: Where were you taking English classes in Las Vegas?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: He was going to the Catholic school church, because this Catholic school – the Catholics,
they got an organization for the refugees (they help with their flight and other stuff). So
he was going there – it was for free. The first couple of months when you show up here,
you need to get your social security, you have to get your ID (that is a kind of work
permit). So I was waiting for the papers, but I decided to go to school instead of just
sitting and wait for the papers.
HWE: Were you there with other members of the Eritrean community?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[38:21]
SGGI: When he come from Malta, he was with three other Eritreans (that means four of them),
so they were all assigned to Las Vegas. So four of them, they give them one house with
three bedrooms; so they were staying together for the first three months. And after three
months he moved to Logan.
HWE: And the others stayed in Las Vegas?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: They stayed there; they are still there.
HWE: What else was Las Vegas like, besides too hot?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Seltene
Gebreselasie
Gebretinsa
Page
14
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: He said Las Vegas has a lot of big building, beautiful places: hotels, houses and other
stuff – but it’s not like Utah; I didn’t like it. He can’t see a lot of stuff there.
HWE: So you were in like a more rural area when you were in Eritrea?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: Yeah, he was more in a rural area. Then he moved to a small town.
HWE: How could your situation, when you first came to the United States, have been improved?
I mean, in terms of like the help you received.
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[41:28]
SGGI: When they first showed up – the United States government helps us a lot: they do
whatever we need necessary. When we first show up they give us 1100 dollars each in
our hand, but we don’t know anybody in this country, so they ask the Refugee
Commission to rent house for them. So they help them to rent a house or apartment with
their money. And everyone, they were given – [speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: They were giving them 350 dollars every month. They were assigned to take 350 for
eight months, but as soon as he moved in the third month he get 350 dollars every month
for the first three months. And he came to Logan, so they cut the money they were giving
him.
HWE: Oh. So when you decided to move to another place they stopped giving you the money?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Seltene
Gebreselasie
Gebretinsa
Page
15
SGGI: He said you can take it – they don’t stop it, but most of the time if you got a job, I don’t
need any assistance. So thanks God when I moved here, I got a job, so I don’t want to
take money anymore.
HWE: Did you not have a job in Las Vegas?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: No.
HWE: Okay. How long have you lived in Logan?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: Two years.
HWE: And where do you work?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: JBS Beef Company.
SGGI: JBS Beef Company in Hyrum.
HWE: What is like here?
HWEI: You mean work, or?
HWE: Work and just life in general in this area.
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[44:05]
SGGI: He likes Utah – it’s a good place to live; I didn’t see any bad things here, so it’s a nice
place to live here.
HWE: Do you feel like you’re included in the Logan community?
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Seltene
Gebreselasie
Gebretinsa
Page
16
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: This is a good place to live. Most of the time we spend our time at work, so he cannot say
anything about any other people; they cannot say they include me, they didn’t include
me, but every time we are at work and at home.
HWE: Do you live with other people here?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
HWE: Oh, you live on your own, right? You said that already.
HWEI: [Repeating the statement in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: Yeah, he got two roommates.
HWE: Oh, okay. Okay, is there anything that you think would make you feel more at home
here?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: He said now I want to stay in America, so I am improving my life and I am looking for a
better opportunities. We are waiting for this country to grow up and for us to get more
opportunities.
HWE: How is living here different than living back home?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[47:44]
SGGI: Life in America is so expensive, rent is expensive; you cannot live if you don’t have
work. And even though you are not going to live with anybody, everybody wants money.
Back home, life is not expensive; so, for example, if you don’t have any apartment to
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Seltene
Gebreselasie
Gebretinsa
Page
17
live, you can live with families, you can live with other people for some time; you can
share with everybody. But here you have to work hard and pay a lot of money for life.
HWE: How has it been renting an apartment or house?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: He said when I compare with Malta – In Malta I used to have my own one bedroom
apartment and that one bedroom includes everything: furniture, bed, kitchen utensils,
refrigerator, and everything – and he was paying only 150 dollar for it (150 Euros for it).
But here, rent is so expensive it’s just – cannot compare; it’s too expensive.
HWE: And what is your landlord like?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[50:29]
SGGI: Yeah, he is sole renter of the apartment they live in now – the landlord, we never sees
him. There was a time when we used to go over their place, but now they got a drop box;
we just write a money order or check, you just drop it. They don’t say anything; they
don’t even come to the apartment.
HWE: What would you like people in Logan to know about you and other members of your
community here?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: He is saying I would like to thank for, not only for Logan, but for the government of the
United States, because they know we got in trouble, so they are helping us: they are
bringing us over here, and they tried to find jobs and apartments for us. So I came to the
United States in Las Vegas when I came here, and they’re still helping me. But the state
of Utah, they accept a lot of refugees from Eritrea, and they try to help them with work,
school, housing and other stuffs. So I appreciate the United States government for
helping the Eritrean communities, and I want them to keep helping because there are still
more people who needs extra help.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Seltene
Gebreselasie
Gebretinsa
Page
18
HWE: Would you go back to Eritrea if you were able to do that?
HWEI: You mean to visit, or just go back entirely?
HWE: Both, I guess.
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[54:07]
SGGI: He is saying as long as the political situation is the same in Eritrea and the government
stays there, I don’t want to go there and I cannot go there because this government is not
treating us well. I have been in the army for 11 years. How can a person stay in the army
for 11 years without payment. But if administration changed, I would like to go visit my
families and see Eritrea; all the people of Eritrea are friendly and nice people. So I want
to go there and see them; it has been too long since the time I was out of Eritrea.
HWE: So you said earlier you had a wife and two kids in Eritrea?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: Yeah, I have a wife and two kids.
HWE: Are you still in communication with them?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: Yeah, I call them.
HWE: Do you send them money?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: Yeah.
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Seltene
Gebreselasie
Gebretinsa
Page
19
SGGI: Yeah, I am the sole helper of the [???] community.
HWE: Do they have any plans to come join you here?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: Yeah, I applied for them to join me here, and the immigration system (or the Visa center),
they approved my application – they even called them for interview, but my children,
they are so small so I cannot take them out safely, so I don’t want to expose them in
danger because they are too young. So they are entirely dependent, so when they grow up
or when there is a possibility to take them out they will come and join him.
HWE: How old are your children?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: The boy is ten and the girl is eight.
HWE: What are you most proud of, in terms of having come here?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[57:42]
SGGI: He said I am proud to be here because this country is a big country, and there is a lot of
opportunities if you think hard and work hard you can do whatever you want to do: you
can go to school – you can work and go to school. So the only thing you need to do here
is just work hard and think hard, and you just do whatever you want to do; you can reach
your dreams.
HWE: What are your dreams for the future?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [High pitched feedback noise begins 58:29]
SGGI: He saying when we come here I need to learn – so he was going to school [??] for four
months; and now he is going to the English school. So he his plans now is to work in the
daytime and go to school in the evening in order to improve his life.
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Seltene
Gebreselasie
Gebretinsa
Page
20
HWE: What, specifically, would you like to have change in your life after you learn English?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [High pitched feedback ends 59:45]
[60:00]
SGGI: Yeah, I never went to school when I was back home, so I didn’t have education
background. So the reason I am going to school now is I don’t want to be illiterate,
because I will try to read and do his stuff on his own. And when his children show up (or
when they come to the United States) he just wants to help them [high pitched feedback
noise begins 60:20 when they are in school and other stuff, because he needs to learn the
language. If he don’t know the language, he cannot help his own.
HWE: I think that might be about it; do you guys have anything you want to ask? [To other
fieldworkers] No? Okay. Is there anything that we haven’t asked you that you think we
should know? [to interviewee]
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [end feedback noise 61:34, begins again at 61:47 and
continues to end]
[End part 1 of 2 – 62:05]
[Part 2 of 2 – 00:01]
[high pitched feedback noise from beginning]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: He saying when they come to the United States when they are in Malta, they gave them
three days course how the United States government works and everything. And they told
them, “If you guys are married, your family will follow you here between six to eight
months. If you are not married, [end feedback noise at 00:37] and if you plan to come
back some countries can get married and take them to the United States, if better if you
become a citizenship, then it will be easier.” But his wife is in Ethiopia now, his children
are in Eritrea, but his wife is in Ethiopia; she did an interview a year ago, but she is still
waiting for the flight in Ethiopia. It has been more than two years since he has been here
and it has been more than a year since she did the interview; she is just waiting for the
flight. So there was some kind of misunderstanding. The way they tell them in Malta, and
the way things are going here – they are not the same.
HWE: Okay. I think this concludes our interview. Thanks for agreeing to meet with me. And we
do have like a release form to put the interview into the Archives at USU, and also, I
Cache
Valley
Refugee
Oral
History
Project:
Seltene
Gebreselasie
Gebretinsa
Page
21
think, [high pitched feedback noise begins 01:40 and continues to end] for it to be used in
our online exhibit, and also for– like we are going to have a community event on
Thursday that I will tell you more about.
HWEI: [Repeating the statement in Tigrinya.]
SGG: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
SGGI: Yeah, no problem; he will sign your paper.
[End part 2 of 2 – 02:25]]]> Seltene Gebrelasie Gebretinsa, 1975-;]]> Olsen, Magen, 1986-;]]> Berhane Debesai Abraha, 1980-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Warner-Evans, Hilary, 1994-;]]> Gross, Susan;]]> transcripts;]]> application/pdf;]]> 160911 Bytes]]> tir; eng;]]> Text;]]> Segeneiti, Eritrea; Sudan; Libya; Malta; England; New York, New York; Las Vegas, Nevada;]]> Eritrea; Ethiopia; Refugees; Eritrean cuisine; Eritrean education; Eritrean government; Language barriers; Family; Eritrean holidays; Eritrean coffee ceremony; Eritrean homes]]> Berhane Debesai Abraha, 1980-;]]> Williams, Heidi, 1989-;]]> N/A]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Olsen, Magen, 1986-;]]> Olsen, Magen, 1986-;]]> oral histories (document genre);]]> audio/mp3;]]> 94850334 Bytes]]> eng;]]> Sound;]]> Eritrea; Sudan; Kenya; California; Utah;]]> Eritrea; Eritreans; Families; Refugees; Ethiopia; Logan, UT; Culture; Tigrinya; English; Education; International Refugee Commission; Refugee Camps; Work; Seltene Gebreselasie Gebretinsal-- Interviews]]> Seltene Gebrelasie Gebretinsa, 1975-;]]> Olsen, Magen, 1986-;]]> Berhane Debesai Abraha, 1980-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Warner-Evans, Hilary, 1994-;]]> Gross, Susan;]]> oral histories (document genre)]]> audio/mp3;]]> 61953052 Bytes]]> tir; eng;]]> Sound;]]> Segeneiti, Eritrea; Sudan; Libya; Malta; England; New York, New York; Las Vegas, Nevada;]]> Eritrea; Ethiopia; Refugees; Eritrean cuisine; Eritrean education; Eritrean government; Language barriers; Family; Eritrean holidays; Eritrean coffee ceremony; Eritrean homes]]> CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET
Interviewee: Afeworki Woldemichael
Present: Afeworki Woldemichael, Heidi Williams, Magen Olsen, Berhane Debesai
Abraha, Hilary Warner-Evans
Place of Interview: Mr. Woldemichael's apartment in Logan, Utah
Date of Interview: 17 May 2015
Language(s): Tigrinya; English
Interpretation: Berhane Debesai Abraha: Live translator
Interviewer: Hilary Warner-Evans
Recordist: Magen Olsen
Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL
broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone
Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe
Transcribed by: Hilary Warner-Evans, May 21, 2015
Transcript Proofed by: Hilary Warner-Evans, May 25, 2015
Brief Description of Contents: Afeworki Woldemichael talks about his family and home in
Eritrea. He discusses his time in a refugee camp in Ethiopia, where he met his wife and had two
children, his journey to the United States, living in Connecticut, Idaho, and Utah. He discusses
his adjustments to life in the United States, and expresses hopes to improve his English to be
better able to communicate with the people of Logan. He talks about what the future of his
family will be like when his wife and children come join him.
Reference: HWE= Hilary Warner-Evans (Interviewer)
HWEI= Hilary Warner-Evans' words being interpreted by
translator
AW= Afeworki Woldemichael (Interviewee)
AWI= Afeworki Woldemichael's words being interpreted by
translator
BDA= Berhane Debesai Abraha
HW= Heidi Williams
NOTE: The interview was conducted with the assistance of a live translator, Berhane Debesai
Abraha. The interpreter arrived about ten minutes later than the interviewer, photographer, and
recordist but is present from the beginning of the transcript. False starts, pauses, or transitions in
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 2
dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcript. All
additions and added information to transcript are noted with brackets.
TAPE TRANSCRIPTION
[00:01]
[Checking microphone. Indistinguishable talk from HWE, BDA, and AW. AW tapping
mic.]
HWE: Okay. It's May 17th 2015. This is Hilary Warner-Evans interviewing Afeworki
Woldemichael, a member of the Eritrean community here in Logan, Utah. And we're at
his apartment in Logan. Also present is Berhane Debesai Abraha, who is translating, from
Tigrinya and Magen Olsen, who is doing the recording, and Heidi Williams, doing
photography. So, can you give your full name again and your birth year?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya]
AW: Okay. May 24, is birthday next Monday [laughs]
BDA: [quietly] Sunday.
AW: Yeah, my–. Yeah, next Sunday. Yeah.
AWI: His birthday is May 24th [unclear]
AW: Yeah.
HW: [to BDA] And yours is twentieth.
BDA: Mm-hm
AW: May 24.
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: 1979
AWI: Yeah. May 24th 1979.
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: Afeworki Woldemichael.
HWE: And what languages do you speak?
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 3
AW: Tigrinya.
HWE: Can you tell me about your family?
AW: Yeah.
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: Okay.
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to Interviewee.]
AW: Okay First, my brother, Nguse Gebreyohannes [??]. Gebreyohannes. And the last name,
Woldemichael. Woldemichael. By Tigrinya, Woldemichael. By English, Woldemichael.
[laughs]
[02:16]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: Yeah.
AWI: Yeah, his oldest brother is Nguse Woldemichael, but the way we write it is different so
we– [Speaks in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: Gebreyohannes.
AWI: Nguse Gebreyohannes Woldemichael. Okay.
AW: Second– My mother born ten people.
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: Yeah.
HWE: Wow.
AWI: His mother have ten children.
AW: And we have seven people. And three people is died.
AWI: He's got seven siblings and three of his siblings, they died. Deceased.
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 4
AW: Two brothers in the independence. [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
AWI: One of his brothers, he died when we're struggling for independence. That means before
1991 against Ethiopia, the war. And the other brother died when we were defending our
country in the second war between 1997 to 2001. And his eldest brother he died from too
much alcoholism.
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
[04:12]
AWI: Do you guys need the names of all his siblings?
HWE: [hesitates] Probably not, but–
HWEI: [Repeating statement in Tigrinya]
HWE: –I don't know.
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
AW: Nine boys and one girl. [laughs]
AWI: He got eight brothers and one sister including him as one of the ten. So now he got six
brothers and one sister.
AW: Yeah.
HWEI: Five brothers?
AW: Six brothers. One–
HWEI: One sister.
AW: One sister.
HWEI: Or five brothers. [Asking question in Tigrinya]
AW: Yeah. [laughs] [Speaking in Tigrinya]
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 5
AWI: He has five brothers and one sister. Including him there are seven surviving siblings.
HWE: And you have a wife too, right?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: Yes.
HWE: Yeah. Do you have any children?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: Yeah. Two boys.
HWE: And are they back in Eritrea?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: They are in the Ethiopian refugee camp.
HWE: Okay. How old are your children?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: One, four years. And the other, [speaks in Tigrinya.]
AWI: His oldest is four years and his youngest, he will be two in September.
[06:04]
HWE: What ethnic or religious community do you consider yourself to be a part of?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: Orthodox.
HWEI: Eritrean Orthodox mission?
AW: Yeah.
AWI: He is a follower of the Eritrean Orthodox church.
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 6
HWE: And you are a follower of the church here in Logan, right? Or, I mean, not Logan but in
Utah.
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya].
AW: Yeah.
HWE: Can you tell me about your birth county?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
AW: My country very good, has mountains. All the mountains. Utah, the same in Utah.
[laughs] Good country. [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He says, Eritrea is beautiful. It has so many mountains just like Utah. It has highlands and
lowlands. It has two seasons.
HWE: And are you– You're from the highland part?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He is from the lowlands.
HWE: Oh, okay. So, what did your family do for work? Were they a farming family?
[8:07]
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: They were irrigation farmers.
HWE: Okay.
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 7
AWI: Yeah, they are irrigation farmers.
AW: Yes.
HWE: What kinds of crops did they grow?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya]
AWI: Corn, Sorghum. Do you guys know Sorghum? It grows like corn but there's grains on the
top.
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya].
AWI: And Dagusa.
AW: [laughs]
AWI: I told you, remember, it's used for local drinks. They raise it, but– [speaking in Tigrinya
to interviewee.]
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] [laughs]
AWI: He doesn't know how to call it in English, but we just call it Dagusa and we use it for
drinks, local drinks. And, is it called sesame? It's a grain. They use it for oil? Sesame.
HWE: Yeah, sesame.
AWI: Yeah, sesame.
HWE: How long did you live in Eritrea?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: All day. [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: All my life until I moved to the Ethiopian refugee camp.
HWE: How old were you when you went to the camp?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 8
AWI: He was twenty-seven going to twenty-eight years.
HWE: Why did you leave Eritrea?
[10:00]
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: There was no job and no job opportunities so I just wanted to improve my life and I
moved for a another place.
HWE: And what was the experience like of leaving?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: His home town is near the border of Eritrea and Ethiopia and it was a war. Eritrea and
Ethiopia, they are in kind of semi-war yet. And where he raised, the area he was raised,
he knows everything, where to go, which to go and he knows which front line, which
lines are Ethiopian front lines. So it's easy for him. He can go daytime or nighttime
because he knows who is where so it was not a big deal for him to cross the border.
[12:00]
HWE: So when you crossed the border, you went to Ethiopia. And were you trying to go
anywhere– What was your final destination you were attempting to go to?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya].
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: Yeah, when he leaving his home town in Eritrea, he got two options. His first option was
to stay in the refugee camp and to work to America and other countries, maybe Europe,
maybe Australia. If that option was not possible, his second option was to go to Sudan,
Libya, cross the mediterranean and to go to Europe.
HWE: Okay. What was your experience like in the refugee camp?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AWI: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 9
[BDA's phone rings and he turns it off.]
[14:00]
AWI: He said, life was tough in the refugee camp because they didn't give them anything. At
first, they were giving them only fifteen kilos of wheat.
AW: Per month.
AWI: Per month. Sometimes you don't have money to grind them and make them into bread or
something. Sometimes he just boiled them, put salt on it, and just eat it. But after that,
some of them, they get money, borrow it from friends and some of them they just get– Or
they have to work for themselves in that area, farming, whatever they can.
HWE: And did you end up working while you were there?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: Yeah, in the surrounding areas near the refugee camp they were working physical
work, laborers, sometimes on the grain harvest. In seasons they work as weeders because
we have to weed the fields by our hand.
HWE: And, so with the money you earned by working eventually could you buy more food?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[16:08]
AWI: So at first they were giving them only 15 kilos of wheat and a liter and a half of oil so
they could not do anything with it. So they work and they earn money and they have to
buy tomatoes, onions, and other stuff to make their own soup. But starting 2009 they
started giving them around 800 milligrams of sugar, might be around two pounds of
sugar, per month. And some times they were giving them some kind of soup. It's made up
of wheat or something like that. So the only thing they have to do is work and earn
money and make their own food.
HWE: What kind of medical care was available at the camp?
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page
10
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: The medical care, that was okay. But the problem was the medical care was provided by
IRC. I think it's the International Refugee Commission. But all the doctors are Ethiopians
and they speak Amharic. And they just wanted to speak Amharic. They don't want to talk
in Tigrinya. And they don't know Tigrinya. But relatively they are okay and if you can
communicate with them you get good medical care.
[18:04]
HWE: So was your wife with you in the camp?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: Okay, his wife is Ethiopian. He met her. She was his friend, or girlfriend. So they were
living together when he got his process finished and he already got his visa. They make it
official. They get married. [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: On September 20th, 2012 they make it official because he was coming here. If he has to
claim her as a girlfriend that doesn't work. He has to marry her. But they met in Ethiopia
in 2010 and they were staying together.
HWE: So when you were in the camp you were living with your wife for most of that time?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
[19:48]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page
11
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He met his wife in the Ethiopian villages because he was going over there to work. Then
when they get pregnant, when she had a baby, he brought her over to the refugee camp
because the baby is his. The baby is Eritrean even though he was born in Ethiopia. So he
brought her to the camp and the baby has to register as a refugee like him. Then he
convinced her, hey, better stay with me. If I get a chance to go abroad then I'm going to
claim you as my wife. Then she stayed with him. But first, until she got her first baby,
she was living with her parents and he was living in the camp but he was working outside the
camp. And at that time he saved some money and he bought a carriage, something you
pull with the horse. [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: But sometimes they pull it with a donkey. So he was working with it transporting stuffs
over there.
HWE: And can you describe your living conditions in the camp?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] [coughs] Sorry, I have to drink water. [Repeating
question in Tigrinya.]
[21:51]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: Yeah, at first life was so hard. Because of all the people over there. They speak the same
language because they are on the border with Eritrea, but all cultures and the way we
think is different. And we are enemies. We are at war. So at first we don't want to talk to
them. They don't trust us. We don't trust them. But we [??] them. We work with them.
We start trading with them, buying stuff from them. And they buy stuff from the refugees.
And then we start to just become kind of one people. Nobody cares for the refugees and
that. But at first it was hard.
HWE: And were you living with anyone else when you were in the camp?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya]
[23:45]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya]
HWEI: [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.]
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page
12
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[26:05]
AWI: Yeah, at first when he was crossing into Ethiopia in 2005, you know, when the refugees,
when they, you go in the office, they call, they give you some paper work. They arrange
to interview you and they give you some coin to get the wheat and the oil. But they just
say, hey, you can get wheat and oil with this one but you are on your own so he doesn't
have anything. He doesn't know anyone in the camp. So there was a tea shop over there
and the tea shop was just made up of tin but they sell teas. So he was sitting over there
and some of the refugees who came before him, maybe a year or so, they saw him and
they told him, “Oh, you look like you're new. Where do you live.” And he said, “I just
arrived here. They drop me here by a car. I have no where to go.” And they told me,
“Okay, you can live with us.” And he lived with them for two years. Then after that he
started working in the surrounding areas and he started saving some money and over
there you just build your own home. Nobody owns the land. It just belongs to the refugee
camp. So there were some people, they were going to Israel in the Middle East. So they
just sold their home to him and he bought that home and he started living by himself. And
in 2008 the refugee commission from the United States, they started registering to come
to the United States and they got a group case. And they were waiting for their group case
and meanwhile he met with his wife. They got a child. Then she moved back with him.
Until he comes here, he was living with his wife. And he was talking about his two
friends, the ones who accepted him first. One of them, he came to Denver but for some
reason he deceased. And the other one, he didn't get to come to America. They rejected
his case. I don't know why but he's in Germany.
[28:07]
HWE: How did you celebrate holidays when you were in the camp, or did you celebrate them at
all?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He said, it depends on your attitude and on your brain. If you got things you put it first,
food and other stuff. If you don't have anything, just buy vegetables because they are the
cheapest over there. Just, you have to do what you have to do.
HWE: And did you get together with other people to celebrate at all?
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page
13
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[30:14]
AWI: Yeah, he said, we were refugees. Most of the time we lived close to each other, we hung
out together, we discussed about what we have to do because we don't want to live on the
welfare of the refugee camp. We want to earn money and improve our life. So during
holidays we always shared what we got. Some people have money. Some of them they
don't have. So if your neighbors or other people you know, if you know they don't have
anything and if you know they are bachelors or singles, you just invite them, “Hey, come
tomorrow. I'm going to make food or buy a sheep or a chicken, whatever you've got, or
meat.” If they are families, because families they want to spend the holiday together, you
just share what you've got with them. You tell them, “Hey, tomorrow is a holiday, I know
you guys don't have anything. Here's this thing and celebrate the holiday.” But you share
whatever you got. It can be meat. It can be food. It can be vegetables. Whatever.
HWE: Did you do anything else besides just eat together?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.]
[32:00]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [laughs]
AWI: He's saying, we just get together. We make coffee. If they've got a woman most of the
time the woman do coffee. If they don't have a woman, they just make it themselves. And
we discuss about their cultures because some people they were from the highlands, some
people from the western lowlands, some people from the eastern lowlands, that means
from the coast of the Red Sea. And we discuss about the way they live in their areas, how
they live, how they celebrate things, their culture and they just communicate and discuss
about cultures and things. And I asked him, do you guys dance, he said, how are we
going to dance? [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [laughs]
AWI: They don't have record or a CD player or something to play the song, so you don't dance
without the music.
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page
14
HWE: There were no musicians?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: There were musicians. They were funded by the IRC. Or because they were by the IRC.
But they perform only on the holidays assigned by the IRC. It can be a Women's Day, a
Refugees' Day, Eritrean Independence Day. But they don't celebrate all holidays.
HWE: What kinds of instruments did they play?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[34:03]
AWI: They played guitar, organ, but–
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya]
AWI: –we got our own equipment. We call it Krar. It's kind of guitar. But there was nobody
that could play saxophone. Because they had the instrument, but there is no person who can
play it.
HWE: And was the way you celebrated holidays in the camp, was that similar to how you
celebrated them in Eritrea?
HWEI: [Repeating in Tigrinya.]
AW: Yeah.
AWI: Yeah.
HWE: Did you get a sense at all of how Ethiopia felt about having all of the refugees in their
country?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page
15
[37:15]
AWI: Yeah, at first it was hard and they don't even like us, because they were even physically
attacking us, because there were some people who lost their teeth. There was a guy who
was hit by an ax. And they are refugees. The only thing they can prepare their food is by
firewood. And there were some people who went for the fire wood and the locals they
were beating them. They were telling them, “This is our wood, what the heck are you
doing with it?” They're all women. They got their wood and the locals, they just put fire
on the wood. They are not taking it. They just put fire on it, but after some time, the
government, the Ethiopian government. It was governing all the locals. It was telling
them, “Hey, these guys are refugees in our country. We have to help them. We are the
same people. We've got some political problems.” But some of them even, they were
born in Ethiopia but after the war broke, they were deported back to Eritrea because they were
born in Ethiopia, by blood they are Eritrean. They were deported. But the government
tried to discuss with the locals. And with the refugees too. So they start to get off it and
they were telling them they can get benefit because they accept the refugees, they can
have political benefit from it. And there was some refugees' organization from the
Netherlands. They came to the camp and they were teaching the refugees how to improve
their life, how to breed chickens, how to make beans because it was forest, and when they
were teaching the refugees, they were also teaching the locals together. So the locals
think, oh, so if we keep the refugees, we can get a lot of benefit. And they start trading
with them finally. Their difference doesn't exist and they start living together. But first
they were all hostile and they don't want them to be in that area.
[39:08]
HWE: How did you learn about the US refugee program?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[high pitched feedback noise 40:18]
[40:59]
AWI: At first, when he was living in Eritrea, he doesn't have any detailed knowledge of the
refugee case for him to come to America. His main reason to go to Ethiopia was to go to
Israel because he can cross through Sudan, but the border is so tough he cannot cross the
Sudan. But since he lives by the border of Ethiopia he just crossed to Ethiopia. His idea
was to go to Sudan, then Egypt, to Israel. But he was in Ethiopia and he was working on
something, he was calling someone, things like that. And there were a lot of people going
to Israel. To go to Israel from Ethiopia, you have to go to Sudan first, then cross all this
desert. You have to go to North of Egypt, cross the Sinai peninsula, then you go to Israel.
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page
16
And it costs a lot of money. And so you have to get money from your parents if they've
got some. Or you need someone or some relative in the United States or Europe because
parts of it take a lot of money. And there are a lot of smugglers in the border between
Israel and Egypt. But when these people who go to Israel, they get together over there and
they start petitioning to the refugee commission for the United Nations. They tell them,
“We're Eritreans. We've got a lot of political problems. We've got a lot of refugees in
Ethiopia. You guys are not doing anything.” Then after that it is the UNHCR. I think it is
a refugee commission. They collaborated with the United States and they started giving
them group case and things like that. And they started immigrating to America.
[42:43]
HWE: Can you tell me about how you got to the US?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [laughs]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: Yeah.
AWI: When he was in the refugee camp, when they are approving him to go to the United
States they have to wait for a flight because they send you when they have empty flights
coming back from Ethiopia. His first flight was on January 15th, 2013. And they cancelled
it. And the second flight was March 5, 2013. They also cancelled it.
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya]
[high pitched feedback noise 44:09]
AWI: Then there was another flight scheduled for him on April 4th, 2013. So from the refugee
camp he moved to Addis Ababa because the airport is in Addis Ababa, the capital of
Ethiopia.
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
AWI: And they cancelled it again.
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page
17
AWI: Then when you come to the United States you have to do medical check up for TB and
other vaccinations. It works only for six months. Because they cancelled his schedule
three times, his medical thing was expired. He has to retake it in Addis Ababa.
[high pitched feedback noise 44:52 to 44:56]
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
AWI: After he get his medical, after 44 days, on June 18th, they told him, “Hey there is a flight.
You're going to the United States on July 1st.” [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: Yeah.
AWI: Then he came to the United States on July the 1st. [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: So when he land, he went outside of the Bole airport where he take a flight to Egypt.
They got a transit. From Egypt they flew directly to New York. From New York they
took him by a bus to New Haven, Connecticut and he stayed there for five months.
[46:13]
HWE: Were there other refugees on the flight with you?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[high pitched feedback noise 46:26]
AWI: There were two Eritreans. There were Sudanese and Somalis too.
HWE: What was it like living in New Haven?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: At first, the air is cold in Connecticut. He was raised in the lowlands of Eritrea and it's too
hot. [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: Most of the time where he was raised, it was forty, forty-two, sometimes forty-five
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page
18
degrees centigrade. [high pitched feedback noise begins 47:43] That means 100 degrees
Fahrenheit. So New Haven was so cold for him, so as soon as he arrived, when he got his
papers, he started working with a landscaping company his second month because he
came here to improve his life. [end noise 48:01] Then from his arrival after five months it
gets too cold because he came in July. In December it gets too cold, then he moved to
Idaho. [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[high pitched feedback noise 48:35 to 48:37]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: Mm-hmm.
AWI: So in Idaho he was working two jobs. One of them was growing with a potato company
and another one was with a cheese company.
HWE: And before you started work in the US, did you get any help from the government or any
religious organizations?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[50:00]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page
19
AW: Yeah.
AWI: They were taking food stamps from the workforce of that state, that means Connecticut.
AW: [Speaking Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: And five months they paid him his rent. I think it's some government organization, he
can't remember their name but something to do with immigration.
[high pitched feedback noise 50:24 to 50:28]
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: Immigration, immigrants.
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He's saying they are everywhere in every state. When you are a refugee they just help
you. They give you money and they help you. It was some kind of immigration services.
HWE: And is there any way that your first few months in the US could've [high pitched
feedback noise 51:04] been improved?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [noise ends 52:12]
[52:20]
AWI: Yeah. I don't know if they can do more, but they were giving us, they were paying for the
rent. And for the first two months, they give us 200 dollar for food stamp each month, but
after that they cut by 11 dollars so they were giving everyone in the whole United States
only 189. And when he moved to Idaho, they helped him with his rent for two months
and they're giving him food stamp for six months and after those they told him, “Hey
come to the work force for some interviews and we'll help you with additional food
stamps” but he told them, “Hey, I'm working and I can support myself. I don't need any
more food stamps” and [high pitched feedback noise 53:05] he didn't show up in the
interview.
HWE: And was– So you went from New Haven to Idaho and was it any warmer in Idaho than it
had been in New Haven? [laughs]
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page
20
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [laughs]
[54:04]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He said, he was talking to his friend in Idaho. He told them, “Hey, this area's too cold. I
cannot do it here.” His friend told him, “Okay, it's cold here but let's try it over here.
Come over here.” And he came to Idaho. When he was coming there was a lot of snow
coming down. And it was even cold even in the airport, [end noise 55:05] so he told the
security, “Hey, I'm staying inside. I'm not leaving until my friends come back, show up.”
Because his friends, [high pitched feedback noise at 55:09] they were not in the airport at
the time he was landing. So he waited inside the airport to wait for his ride but it was too
cold even in the airport. Then he started work then. Utah and Idaho, they are kind of the
same in weather but they are different than Connecticut. Connecticut is close to Canada
and close to the sea, the ocean, and it is colder than Idaho.
BDA: [to HWE] So what do you think? You came from the west coast– east coast. [laughs]
HWE: Me? About the weather?
BDA: Oh sorry. The interview is about him not about you. [laughs]
HWE: [laughs]
AW: [laughs]
HWE: How long have you lived in Cache Valley?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
[56:04]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He's going on his tenth month. Last month, on the 13th , it was his ninth month.
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page
21
HWE: And did you go straight here from Idaho?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
AW: Yeah.
AWI: Yeah.
HWE: And why did you decide to come here after Idaho?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: Yeah, in Idaho he was working two jobs, almost 20 hours a day. He was sleeping just
three hours a day. And they were paying him only nine dollars per hour. So he was asking
friends for a better job with better payment. So came here. They work only between 9 to
10 hours in Hyram. And he gets paid 13.75 an hour. The job is hard, but I got time to rest.
That's why he moved to Logan.
[58:22]
HWE: And you work at JBS?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: Yeah.
HWE: Okay. What has it been like living in Logan?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He said, I like Logan. It's safe place. I don't have to worry about my security. And I work.
I support my relatives. I support my children and his wife. He's processing their visa. I
hope they will come soon. And most of the time when you move from one state to
another state you have to think about yourself and discuss with yourself, why are you
moving? So I told Logan had a better lifestyle, lifestyle than there was in Idaho, better
pay. So, so far, I cannot complain. Logan is a good place and I hope I will improve my
life better than I have now.
[60:31]
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page
22
HWE: Do you feel included in the community here?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: Yeah. Until now, I didn't encounter anything bad, not only in Logan but in the whole
United States. Sometimes, due to the language barrier, there might be some conflicts but
I'm sure it's because we don't speak English and they don't speak Tigrinya. But if I can
speak English and explain my culture and my needs, I hope I feel included.
HWE: What do you think could be done to make you feel more at home here?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
End part 1 of 2: 62:06
Begin part 2 of 2:
[00:01] [high pitched feedback noise from beginning to end]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He said, I think he needs to do more to study English and if he studied English, if he can
communicate with the locals, he will tell them how we live our [??] things like that. And
he learns the culture of the locals if they can communicate. If he can communicate with
the other people, just respect each other and live including each other, life will be easier.
But if we don't communicate with them, if we don't know the language, it will be hard.
But the only thing we have to do is learn English and explain ourselves.
HWE: Okay. How is your home here different than the one you had in Eritrea.
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [laughs]
AWI: He was living in a house but now he's living in an apartment.
HWE: [laughs]
AW: [laughs]
HWEI: [Speaks in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page
23
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [laughs]
[02:20]
AWI: There is a lot of difference. The utensils here and back home are different. Back home we
use firewood to cook our food and other stuff, but here we use gas stoves. And for ready
to eat things we use a microwave here, but over there, nobody knows what a microwave
is.
HWE: Can you tell me about your experiences with your landlord?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: We don't even know who's owner of this apartment. They heard lives in Texas, and some
other company, they lease all the apartments. They got a drop box downstairs. Every
month, they write the money order and they just drop it. And they don't know who takes
the money or who owns these apartments.
[03:58]
HWE: So what happens when you have a problem like if your fridge breaks or something goes
wrong?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: So all of the refrigerators, they have a contact number, so if something goes wrong, you
just call that contact number and they deal with it.
HWE: Oh, okay.
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: But so far they don't have any problems so they never use that number.
HWE: Okay. What would you like people in Logan to know about you and other Eritreans here?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page
24
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He says, here in Logan, those who can speak English, they are so few. But I hope we can
learn English and discuss with the Logan community how they go, their political system,
the way they live, their culture, and more else. And I hope we can communicate with
them. But now there are only a few people who can talk to them.
[06:14]
HWE: If you could, would you go back to your home country?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He cannot go.
HWE: But if you were able to, would you want to?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: I don't think we are going back home but if the government or the system is changed over
there, if they can allow all the refugees to come back to Eritrea, if he becomes a citizen, I
might go for a visit, but I don't think I will go back.
HWE: What are you most proud of?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[08:00]
AWI: I'm happy because I'm healthy and I can work and support myself and my families. And,
second, although I know only few English, I am proud I can– I will try to make friends
and communicate with other people.
HWE: What are your dreams for the future?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page
25
AWI: This time I cannot tell you about my dreams because I am working on bringing my
family, my wife and children, so when she comes here, we will discuss about our future
dreams with my family, my wife and my children. And after, if she comes here, we'll
both dream together, but if I dream something now and she dreams another dream, it'll be two
dreams and one family. So when she shows up here, we can discuss about myself, about
our future. We will buy a house and we'll improve our future life and future life of our
children.
HWE: Okay. I think that's all. Do you guys have anything you want to ask?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
[09:53]
AW: Okay. [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He said, I appreciate you on behalf of myself and the other people in Logan or Utah.
Because you guys are working to get our culture and to take it to the people of Logan and
other people. So I appreciate what you guys are doing.
HWE: Thank you.
AW: You're welcome.
HWE: I hope we'll be able to do that correctly. Do you have anything else that you want to add?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: I don't have any other things to add, but I hope in our, in my future interview, things like
this or other stuff, I hope I will do it myself without a translator. I think I want to talk to
any person, man, woman, it doesn't matter, but I just want to do it myself without a
translator.
HWE: Okay. So, thanks for agreeing to meet with us. And we have a release form to sign that
has to do with putting the interview and the photos in the archives being used for an
online presentation.
HWEI: [Repeating statement in Tigrinya.]
[12:07]
AW: Okay.
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page
26
BDA: Does he need to write in English, or?
HWE: No, you can write in whatever language you want.
HWEI: [Repeating statement in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
BDA: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
End part 2 of 2: [12:29]]]> Berhane Debesai Abraha, 1980-;]]> Williams, Heidi, 1989-;]]> N/A]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Olsen, Magen, 1986-;]]> Olsen, Magen, 1986-;]]> transcripts;]]> application/pdf;]]> 162008 Bytes]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Eritrea; Sudan; Kenya; California; Utah;]]> Eritrea; Eritreans; Families; Refugees; Ethiopia; Logan, UT; Culture; Tigrinya; English; Education; International Refugee Commission; Refugee Camps; Work; Eritrea-- Food; Afeworki Woldemichael-- Interviews]]> Afeworki Woldemichael, 1979-;]]> Williams, Heidi, 1989-;]]> Berhane Debesai Abraha, 1980-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Warner-Evans, Hilary, 1994;]]> Warner-Evans, Hilary, 1994-;]]> oral histories (document genre);]]> audio/mp3;]]> 71621802 Bytes]]> tir; eng;]]> Sound;]]> Western Lowland Eritrea; Ethiopia; Egypt; New York, NY; New Haven, CT; Idaho;]]> Eritrea; Refugees; Ethiopia; Cache Valley (Utah); Africa; Farming; Holiday celebrations;]]> Kahsay Gebremedhin, 1971-;]]> Warner-Evans, Hilary, 1994-;]]> Berhane Debesai, 1980-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Olsen, Magen, 1986-;]]> Gross, Susan;]]> oral histories (document genre);]]> audio/mp3;]]> 75448733 Bytes]]> tir; eng;]]> Sound;]]> Eritrea; Ethiopia; Germany; Maryland; Salt Lake, Utah;]]>