Stock Certificate; Gustav L. Becker; John S. Becker; E.N. Allison Jr.;]]> Becker Brewing and Malting Company;]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> application/pdf;]]> 4529977 Bytes]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Ogden, Utah]]> Stock Certificate; Thekla B. Becker; Becker Products Company; Becker Brewing and Malting Company;]]> Becker Products Company;]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> application/pdf;]]> 5809163 Bytes]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Ogden, Utah]]> Logan (Utah)--History; Cache Valley (Utah and Idaho)--History; Cache Valley (Utah and Idaho)--Biography; Logan (Utah)--Biography; Ellis, William P.;]]> Ellis, William P.;]]> The Journal]]> image/jpeg;]]> 1163618 Bytes]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> SCAFILEMSS0389-091.pdf]]> Logan (Utah); Cache County (Utah); Utah; United States;]]> 1850-1859; 19th century;]]> Agriculture, Cooperative--Utah; Cooperative societies--Utah; Utah Self-Help Cooperative Board;]]> Self-help movement;]]> Stringham, Benjamin B.;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Salt Lake City, Salt Lake County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5780993 ;]]> 20th century; 1940-1949;]]> Agricultural extension work--Publications; Finance--Statistics;]]> Extension Work; Publications; Reports; Finances; Weber County;]]> Bingham, Hazel;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Weber County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5784440;]]> 20th century; 1930-1939;]]> Legends;]]> legend-tripping;]]> Guest commentary
Jake Jeppson

I am writing this as an answer to the recent articles and reports in the local media concerning my brother, John Jeppsen, who is the lead watchman at St. Anne’s Retreat.

I feel it’s necessary to bring out some facts that have not been mentioned, and to say something about circumstances involved.

It is my understanding that the shotgun shells which John had were loaded with rock salt. Years ago these were used for raiders of melon patches, hen houses, private outhouses or stray dogs. These to sting severely, not kill.

A great to-do was made about the fellow that was knocked unconscious. Nothing is said about him coming up behind John to jump him during the arrests. John was an Airborne Ranger in Europe. Rangers are one of three groups of America’s finest fighting men. John was not, nor is he, a Vietnam vet (with mental and emotional problems), as earlier articles implied.

Emotions? Name me as any man anywhere who would not be wound tight while arresting 38 people as big as himself in the darkness or poor light, alone, in Logan Canyon at that time of day? Especially in view of the monetary value of property damage at the site and the later made threats which I know were made.

Nothing has been said about the threats made against John; i.e. “We’re coming back to get you.”

There are inconsistencies in the young people’s stories. The Herald Journal stories say the trespassers were arrested just inside the gate. An article in the Statesman quotes a young man as saying “just as he jumped down into the empty pool.” Another was that the fellow who was knocked out was struck with a billy club. That man was struck with a bullstroke (military term), from the shotgun butt as he attempted to jump on John’s back. In other words, John did his job (a tough one) and got the attacker before he could get him.

The rope and knots are a tool to contain and retain prisoners as taught to the Airborne Rangers. The knot is not a “slip-knot” nor a “hangman’s knot” as implied. It is a knot like the “bowline” used to tie boats or tie a horse “expressly) because the knot will not slip. The loop is tied loosely or semi-loosely as needed to hold.

The owner of the property says he was “allowing John to stay there.” As if John was some homeless poor soul. John may have been staying there as part of their agreement, but he has a beautiful wife who is a fine woman, with whom he lives and they live with and care for our mother who is convalescing from a broken hip and joint replacement. The home they are living in is a very neat, clean and modern brick home in Providence with several bedrooms.

Now about the vandalism which is occurring all over our area. I was on top of Logan Canyon yesterday and stopped to use the public restrooms near Peter Sinks. On the older building the door had been totally ripped off and destroyed. There were unspeakable things which had been done inside and outside the restrooms. This is common all over now.

Several years ago there was a movie made called Walking Tall. It was a true story about a sheriff down south who was man enough to take on a corrupt system and individuals with his famous pick handle. He became a national hero. Two or three movies were made about his life.

Then there are the Rooster Cogburns and Big Jake’s of John Wayne. We cheer these men, yet seek to destroy a man who is striving to do his job and enforce the right of property owners to have their property be secure.

In Salt Lake City yesterday, a police officer was acquitted for shooting a dog while he was jogging. The owners were allowing it to run loose and get in trouble. Needless to say isn’t it lucky we don’t have such a law for kids and parents who cannot control their children and are embarrassed at the stunts they pull. I know, I have six of my own, two step-children and 22 grandchildren. Some of the finest people I know are also sharing this problem.

A remark was made in a commentary about the legends of St. Anne’s retreat, that a certain prominent attorney said he used to go up there when he was a kid, too. I don’t care if it was Thomas Jefferson, would that make breaking the law right? Or trespassing/vandalism?

John may not have done everything perfect, but who could under such conditions.

In my mind, John is a fine man, made of the stuff heroes are made of. If you think not-you try arresting 30 hell-raising young adults in the dark, lonely, middle of the night.]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> legends (folk tales);]]> application/pdf;]]> 591695 Bytes]]> eng]]> Text;]]> Logan Canyon (Utah); Cache County (Utah); United States;]]> 1990-1999; 20th century;]]> Legends;]]> legend-tripping;]]> By Ryan Robb Olivar
Staff writer

An owner of the former St. Anne’s Convent in Logan Canyon said the [that] the three men accused of terrorizing trespassers on the property were not paid employees.

Part-owner and San Francisco attorney Mark Epstein said one of the accused men, John Jeppson, was allowed to use the property in exchange for tending it. The property was purchased more than three years ago from the Catholic Church by Epstein and three other people intending to use it as a get-away spot, he said.

Jeppson is one of the men accused by two groups of Cache County teen-agers and young adults who trespassed on the property Friday of binding them with cords around their necks and flexible ties around their wrists while he held them at bay with a shotgun. The two other men allegedly wielding shotguns and threatening the trespassers have been identified as Arthur Peasnall and Christopher Doerr of Tooele County.

Epstein said he did not know Peasnall or Doerr, or why they were with Jeppson on Friay.

“I don’t know exactly what went on that night,” Epstein said. “But no one is going to tell anybody to chase down a bunch of people and tie them around the neck.”

If Jeppson did that, it was not something directed by any of the property owners, he said.

Tim Bradfield of Logan, who was taking care of the property before Jeppson replaced him six weeks ago, said he was told by property owners that if a problem occurred to call the sheriff.

“They never told me to physically detain people,” Bradfield said. “I think these people were acting of their own accord,”

Epstein said one thing that might have been frustrating for Jeppson was the amount of damage caused by vandals. “We’ve incurred in excess of $100,000 in property damage.”

Another thing that may have disturbed him was on early Friday morning, he captured eight people banging on the front doors of the main building who told him they’d come back to get him, Epstein said. Several of the people Jeppson detained in that first incident have told The Herald Journal they were bound with rope around their necks and were forced to sit in a circle until sheriff’s deputies arrived and arrested them for trespassing.

When an unrelated group of 30 people snuck through the gate’s door on Friday night, the trespassers were this time stopped at the door by Jeppson and his shotgun-wielding companions, according to the sheriff’s department.

Cache County Sheriff Lynn Nelson said his office is trying to determine if the men were threatened and were acting upon that threat when they violently detained the second group of trespassers. But he said he hasn’t been able to substantiate any threats and that both groups of trespassers were treated with equal force.

The parents of the trespassers and the community ought to know the Sheriff’s Office is taking the allegations made by the trespassers very seriously, said Nelson, who spent much of Monday answering questions from Utah news media and two syndicated television news magazines, including Inside Edition.

The kids were wrong to trespass, he said, but they were just looking to have some fun. “The big issue here is what these other guys did to them.”

Nelson said all indications so far indicate that Jeppson and his two companions went beyond what was appropriate.

Jeppson began tending the property six weeks ago because of his experience as a carpenter, according to several sources.

Morris Pitcher, who attends church with Jeppson, said the man moved to Cache Valley last spring from Pocatello, Idaho to take care of his invalid mother. He sold his home and gave up his job to come here, Pitcher said.

When his mother got a little better and didn’t need his help, Pitcher said Jeppson asked around in the church ward if people knew where he could find work. It was then that he got hooked up with the people at the St. Anne’s property and was allowed a place to stay if he fixed it up and tended it.

“He’s got a good heart that guy,” Pitcher said. “But maybe this job wasn’t particularly suited to him.”

Jeppson couldn’t be reached for comments.]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> legends (folk tales);]]> application/pdf;]]> 626015 Bytes]]> eng]]> Text;]]> Logan Canyon (Utah); Cache County (Utah); United States;]]> 1990-1999; 20th century;]]> Legends;]]> legend-tripping;]]> By Ryan Robb Oliver
Staff writer

Additional criminal charges were filed Monday in 1st District Court against three men accused of terrorizing 38 teen-agers and young adults at the St. Anne’s Retreat in Logan Canyon on Oct. 10.

John Jeppson of Pocatello, Idaho, Christopher Doer [Doerr] and Arthur Peasnall, both of Tooele County, were charged with forcible sexual abuse in addition to the six charges of aggravated assault that had been filed against each of them in October.

A preliminary hearing on all seven charges against the three men has been set for Wednesday in 1st District Court.

Cache County Deputy Attorney Don Linton said the latest sex abuse charges stem from an investigation into a statement by one of the teen-agers who said Jeppson had felt her breasts with his hands under her shirt and on top of her bra. Jeppson told police he was checking her for weapons, according to a Cache County sheriff’s report.

The three men were arrested after a sheriff’s investigation determined they had gone too far when they detained eight trespassers at the St. Anne’s property on the morning of Oct. 10 and 30 more trespassers later in the evening.

Then teen-agers and young adults said they went onto the property in search of a Halloween thrill. After entering the gates they said, they were detained by the three men, who were yelling threats and wielding shotguns with flashlights taped to the barrels. In both instances, the trespassers were bound with cords around their necks and handcuffed. The latter group would be placed in an empty swimming pool until deputy sheriffs arrived.
The St. Anne’s Retreat property is owned by four people from outside Cache County. Jeppson was allowed to use it in exchange for helping maintain the grounds.

Cache County Attorney Scott Wyatt has said he doesn’t intend to call all 38 alleged victims to testify in court. Instead, Wyatt said he’ll call a few people to testify on several specific criminal acts that allegedly took place.

A sheriff’s report based on interviews with the trio and the trespassers alleges the following took place that day in addition to the sexual assault:

-Jeppson placed a revolver to one woman’s head, threatened to kill her, moved the gun away from her head and then fired it.

-The three men fired their shotguns at or near the trespassers and threatened to kill them by “blowing their heads off.” Jeppson fired one shot at a tree, which showered several people forced to lie under it with debris. He told them if they didn’t believe that he would kill them, they could look at the 6-inch hole put in the tree.

-One juvenile was knocked unconscious and suffered a concussion after he was struck in the head with the butt of a shotgun by one of the men.

-Another juvenile was told to spread her legs while being held at gunpoint and then kicked in the crotch.

-A juvenile was held by her hair by one of the men and had her head yanked back, aggravating a previous spinal condition.

-A male juvenile was punched in the mouth by one of the men holding him at gunpoint.

The three men have since been released on bail from the Cache County Jail. Misdemeanor trespass charges were originally filed against the juveniles and young adults but were later dropped by Wyatt at the request of the property owners.

Wyatt was criticized in the community for dropping the charges by many people who said the actions the three men took were a reasonable and prudent response for dealing with trespassers on a property all too often plagued by vandals.]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> legends (folk tales);]]> application/pdf;]]> 737855 Bytes]]> eng]]> Text;]]> Logan Canyon (Utah); Cache County (Utah); United States;]]> 1990-1999; 20th century;]]> Legends;]]> legend-tripping;]]> By Ryan Robb Oliver
Staff writer

A 1st District Court judge determined Thursday there was enough evidence to order the trial of three men charged with tying up and terrorizing 38 trespassers at the St. Anne’s Retreat.

John Jeppson of Pocatello, Idaho, and Arthur Peasnall and Chris Doerr, both of Tooele County, face six counts of aggravated assault. Jeppson will face an additional charge of forcible sexual abuse.

“This was expected,” said Doerr’s public defender Barbara Lachmar after the hearing. Lachmar said the defense does not present most of its evidence until trial.

Sexual abuse charges had originally been filed against all three men by the Cache County Attorney’s Office. But after listening to two days of preliminary hearing testimony from alleged victims and police officers who arrived at the retreat in Logan Canyon, Judge Clint Judkins dropped the sex charges against Doerr and Peasnall, saying prosecutors failed to bring forward enough evidence.

A 17-year old Smithfield girl had testified Wednesday that only Jeppson touched her buttocks and breasts before he tied her up, supposedly checking her for weapons.
Cache County Attorney Scott Wyatt said he sought sex abuse charges against all three men because they were acting in concert with one another.

The three men are accused of violently detaining several groups of teen-age and young adult trespassers at the retreat Oct. 10. The three allegedly wielded shotguns with flashlights strapped to the barrels, which they allegedly fired into the air and threatened to kill the trespassers with if they didn’t follow orders to get on the ground. The 38 people would later be handcuffed and bound around their necks with a cord until police arrived.

Defense attorneys for the three men mounted no significant attacks on the testimony of the six alleged victims in the two-day preliminary hearing. Jeppson’s attorney, David Perry, appeared he was laying the groundwork for a defense based on his client feeling threatened by the trespassers and taking reasonable measures to respond to that threat.

One blow to the defense came out of Thursday’s testimony by a Cache County sheriff’s investigator. Lt. Von Williamson said not only did the three men possibly go beyond what’s allowed under law to stop trespassers, but they didn’t even [have] a right to stop anyone because the St. Anne’s Retreat is on leased U.S. Forest Service land.

“According to their special-use permit, they are not authorized to prevent people from walking on their property,” Williamson said.

Wyatt also said Jeppson, who was allowed by the wonders of the retreat’s buildings to tend the property, was never given permission by them to act as a security guard.

“The message here is don’t defend someone else’s property without their permission,” he said.

The men are scheduled to be arraigned March 23.]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> legends (folk tales);]]> application/pdf;]]> 640631 Bytes]]> eng]]> Text;]]> Logan Canyon (Utah); Cache County (Utah); United States;]]> 1990-1999; 20th century;]]> Legends;]]> legend-tripping;]]> "Saint Anne's Retreat"
Informant data:
Marsha Jenkins
Pine Glen Cove,
Logan Canyon
June of 1978
Retold October of 1983
Marsha Jenkins is from Newton, Utah. She was born and raised
there and was affiliated with the M.I.A. program in the Newton
ward for several years for the L.D.S. Church. She was a camp
leader and accompanied the girls to a Young Womens camp held at
Pine Glen Cove about 9 miles up Logan Canyon. We'd all gather
around the fire place in the big lodge before going to our cabins
to tell and listen to stories. This was the one that really got
to us!
Pine Glen Cove was previously known as "St. Anne's Retreat"
because each summer a gr oup of Nun s from the Catholic Chur ch
would visit the retreat for relaxation and meditation. Until
the tragedy.
The radio's and television sets blared with the news that an
escaped convict was wandering through Logan Canyon. He had one
hook arm add was armed with a dangerous weapon. People were
warned to stay clear of the canyon and to stay inside where they
were sa~ e. The nuns, however didn't have any contact with the
outside world. That very evening one of the sisters was missing.
The other sisters looked around as much as they could but decided
she was just meditating or that she had gone back to her cabin
early. The next morning she still hadn't returned. They looked
most of the day but found nothing.
That evening as some of the Nuns were praying, they heard a horrible
scream. They ran directly outside to see what the trouble was and
there was the missing Sister ... Bloody and floating in the swimming
pool.
After that episode they sold the retreat.
never :Eo.und.
The escaped ~onvict was
Andrea Benson
Newton, Utah
History 124
Fall 1983
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Tim Keller
Logan, Utah
November 12, 1982
Tim was born in Preston, Idaho and has lived there all of his
life. He is a member of the L.D . S. church and is presently attend­ing
Utah State University. Tim likes modern cars and he is also
a good waterskier.
Contextual Data:
I learned this item from Tim after I asked him if he'd heard
any stories of St. Anne's Retreat. Tim heard this story from his
friend's mother who has lived in Logan for some tir.le. This is the
story as he related it to me.
Up Logan Canyon there is an old Catholic Convent. It consists
of several cabins and there is also a swimming pool. This convent
is abandoned now but nuns used to occupy it. The Hother Superior,
or whatever it is, the head nun who was over the nuns who lived up
there , was supposed to be kind of sadistic. She would lock her
nuns in their cabins and leave them there for no one knows how long .
There are scratches on the cabin walls with blood stains where the
nuns tried to claw their way out.
Terri Keller
Preston, Idaho
USU
Legends/ Hyths and
Folktales
Fall quarter, 1982
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Launee Fo-wler
her house
.'larch 25, 19:31
This story .. c::.s told to me by La ',ln6e .Fowler, rr;y :;]utual adviser. The
story use:l. to be toU to tne girls up at a ;irls car:;p in Logar. Car.yon.
All of the girls kne~ it wasn't tr~e, but it used to scare the~ quite
badly, beca~e the incident was supposed to have happened close to
where the:'l were. The story was told when Launee went to' ca::r? in the
early 1970's.
Launee is 24 and lives at in Bountifcl, Utah.
She is the mother of two.
"They l.l.Sed to tell us this story wnan we were up at girls
camp. You know where Logan Canyon is 7 o'\'ell, there's this old
building where they use.:i to send the nuns for surncner vacation.
There was ttis one nun who had a golden ar~. One day when
she was the only one there, a guy carne in, killed her, and stole
her golden arm and the other valuables.
I,ow the nun is supposed to be out walkins a::,ou.."l3 at night
looking for her arm. She goes up to people beg~in; for it.
It used to scare us because the nurillery was just over the hill
from where we were."
EO'JIltiful, Juh
Soutj Javis Junior High
L.cr A 14 1+ \ <::>\1) K..~ FA lIZ-L
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Legend
"The Baby in the Fireplace"
Informant data:
Myself
Logan, Utah
1974 (approx.)
I was born May 24, 1960 in Logan, Utah, to parents of English
ancestry. I lived in California for six years, then we moved back
to Logan. I was educated in the Logan City Schools, and am current­ly
a senior at Utah state University majoring in music. I am a mem­ber
of the L.D.S. church and enjoy tennis, raquetball, skiing, camp­ing,
and music of all kinds. I am currently serving as the Young
Women's camp specialist for my stake.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Contextual data:
I heard this story while I was attending a girl's camp at Camp
Lomia in Logan Canyon. Our whole group had gathered in the lodge,
which is where this story is supposed to have taken place. The fact
that we were in that place made the story even scarier to us. As
soon as the meeting was over, we ran out of the lodge and back to
our tents as fast as we could. I'm not sure the story is actually
true, but it was told as a true story and all of us believed it at
the time. It was probably just told to scare us to death, and it
worked: Ever since then, I have told the story to other groups and
in other situations, but it seems like I always get the best re­action
from the audience when I tell it in the lodge. This shows
me how important a role the setting can play in the telling of a
story.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Many years ago, before cabins were built at Camp Lomia, the
girls used to sleep in bunk beds in the upper story of the lodge.
One night the girls were awakened by the sound of a baby's cry.
They couldn't tell where the sounds were coming from, but every
night they were there they heard the same cries. Finally, the
girls became so terrified that they had to leave camp early. Even
after the girls were home, however, they were still very frightened
and many of them started having nightmares. The families of these
girls decided to conduct a search of the lodge to see if they could
locate the source of the cries. A group of men went up one night
and waited in the top floor of the lodge. Just after midnight, the
cries of a small baby could be heard clearly by everyone present.
It seemed to fill the entire room. The men finally determined that
the cries were coming from the fireplace at one end of the room.
Upon closer inspection, they foudn that one of the stones was loose.
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They removed the stone and found the skeletal remains of a newborn
baby. It was later learned that the lodge had once been used as a
retreat for Catholic nuns. Apparently, one of the nuns had been
pregnant and had gone to the lodge to have her baby. Unable to
face the humiliation of her situation, she buried the newborn alive
in the fireplace.
Annette Pack
Logan, Utah
Utah State University
History 124
Fall Quarter 1981
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Scott R. Peterson
Library, USU
Feb. 8, 1984
Legend
St. Ann's Retreat
Informant data:
Scott Peterson has lived in Logan for most of his life. He
is 22, an LDS returned missionary and a student at USU. He
is a political science major and plans on attending law
school the fall of 1985.
Contextual data:
Text
I collected this item while I was in the library studying
with Scott. Since he is a native of Logan I thought he
would probably know the story of St. Ann's retreat. I asked
him to tell me his version after hearing one of his friends
tell another version. The three of us were sitting in the
library together when Scott told us this story. Scott does
not believe this story to be true. He thinks that something
probably did happen at the retreat, but he has no idea what
it was.
They had a bunch of nuns killed up there [St. Ann's
Retreat] • On a certain occasion some marshalls went to
investigate it, and when they arrived they found one nun who
was lacking an ar~ and had a golden one instead. When they
got there she was crouched over one nun finishing her off
with a hatchet. They tried to apprehend her, and she ran
off into the hills and was never found. She is still up
there and that is why you shouldn't go.
2
Lisa Canfield
Logan, utah
USU
Folklore
Winter 1984
(
(
Superstition Folk Belief
"GHOST AT SAINT ANN"
Informant Data:
MAFW: L1JA I TE
Logan, Utah
aul'/ 5, 84
Mark Waite~ 18~ was born in Logan, Utah. He attended Logan
High School and graduated in 1984. His father is a bi ·shop. He
loves to go four wheeling.
Conte:.: tual Data:
Mark heard this story last year when he went camping with the
Boy Scouts. He heard it from a guy named Steve Goodson. Steve
was in the story himself.
* * * * * * * *
On one winter night~ Steve and his friend were coming back
from four wheeling and snowmobiling. It was about midnight when
they went through Saint Ann's. Steve tried to start the truck~
but it wouldn't start. After about five minutes, they saw a nun
appear with a Doberman and she pointed in their direction for the
Doberman to attack them. After the first Doberman was attacking
the truck~ they saw the nun disappear and reappear with another
one until there were six of them. Steve eventually got his truck
started and drove away. When Steve got home, his parents thought
he had rolled the truck over, because there were scratches and a
broken wi ndo~'-J. He told them the story and they all went up there
the next day, but they found nothing.
Chi:"lu N. Lam
U.S.U.
History 124
L::;ummet- , :l 984
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Kevin Kartchner
Library, USU
Feb. 8, 1984
Legend
St. Ann's Retreat
Informant data:
Kevin Kartchner was born and raised in Logan, Utah. He is
22 years old, LDS, a returned missionary and majoring in
Business.
Contextual Data:
Text
I collected this item while I was stu~ng in the library
with my fiance. Kevin is a friend of my fiance, and when I
asked Scott to tell me the legend of St. Ann's retreat, he
thought Kevin would know more about it. Kevin learned the
story in bits and pieces as he was growing up in Logan. The
only audience was Scott and me. After Kevin told his
version of the story, Scott told his ,and they compared
legends. Kevin does not believe that his story is entirely
true, but he does believe that something did happen at ST.
Ann's, and that at least part of his story is based on
truth. I used as m~ of Kevin's own words as I could as I
recorded the story in tonghand while he told it to me.
These cowboys were out on the range about 1920. There were
a bunch of nuns that lived up there. The cowboys that were
in the area were lonely and rowdy. They went up there [St.
Ann's Retreat] and raped and killed them.
1
Lisa Canfield
Logan, utah
USU
Folklore
Winter 1984
L..{ I. / ~. 1_ /3
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Superstition Local Belief
"SAINT-ANN-RETREAT"
Infot-mant Data:
MARK FLUCKIGER
Logan, Utah
June,8Lf.
Mark Fluckiger, 18, was born in Logan, Utah. His family
been members of the Mormon church. He recently went to Boot
in Fortknox, Kentucky. He likes to ride dirt bikes,
basketball and he used to be my co-pilot in races.
Conte:-: tual Data:
have
Camp
play
Mark heard this story from his neighbor.
from other people in different versions. He
He also heard it
seemed to believe
them all.
I collected this story while we were out dragging Main on a
Saturday night. We were bored of Main street and decided to do
something else. Mark suggested that we go up to Saint-Ann. We
didn't really know what it was, so he told us the story. (There
were five of us in the car)
::I< :I< * * * * * *
Saint-Ann was a nunery a long time ago. As Catholic, nuns are
not suppose to have sex or any relationship with male.
some nuns up at Saint-Ann had broke the rule and got pregnant.
When the babies were born, the nuns killed the babies by drowning
them in a pool in the back of Saint-Ann. Some of the nuns felt
guilty and killed themself also. Now, the nuns sometimes appear
back to visit the place. There is a watchman with two dobermans
and a gun to keep the public out.
Chau N. Lam
U.S.U. Campus
U.S.U.
Hi f~;tory 12Lf.
Summer, 1984
L ;). I. I ~. /. I!
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Story
St. Anne's Retreat
Informant data:
Karen Oakden
Logan, Utah
October 6, 1983
Karen Oakden is my sister. She was born in Logan, Utah on April 12,
1961. She graduated from Utah State with a 2 year Secretarial degree.
She is of Swiss defent. She is presently employed at U.S.U. She is an
active member of the L.D.S. Church.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Contextual Data:
Karen heard this story when her and her friends were up driving in Logan
canyon one night. Her friends told her the story. They were all
scaring each other with scary stories. She was terrified, she spooks
easily. She related the story to me because I had a friend who spent
the night at st. Anne's Retreat.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Text: St. Anne's Retreat
At one time St. Anne's Retreat was used as a nunnery. The nuns lived far
away from everyone else so they got away with things other nuns could not get
away with. The nuns often found themselves pregnant. In order not to get in
trouble for doing things they shouldn't, they would drown their babies in the
swimming pool that is at the retreat. If you go up to St. Anne's Retreat in
Logan Canyon at night, you can still hear the babies crying.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Janet Rust
Logan, Utah
Utah State University
English 124
Fall 1983
L~, I, I~. I .. is
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Legend
Saint Annis Retreat
Informant Data:
Tony Gil bert
Logan Canyon
August 1981
Tony is a friend live grown up with. He was raised in Lewiston,
Utah, on a dairy farm. ' He is active in the L.D.S. Church, which he
- is preparing to serve a mission for. He attended Utah State last year
n, n frp~hman. He is very talented as a musician and a dancer, and
has always b'een active in perfOrnIllg groups such as Calico 'D'arice '
Company, 'which he presently belongs to. He was on the Student Body
Council during all three of his high school years, and is very good­natured.
Con'textual Data:
Tony related this story to me one night as we were driving home
ffom Pickleville Playhouse; which is ov~r on Bear Lake. I worked
there this summer as a p~rformer, and he had come over to watch me
on this particular night. He happens to know that I get scared very
easily, and driving through Logan Canyon at one o'clock in the
morning makes me even more jittery than usual. The story he told me
scared me to death, and I didn't dare drive through the canyon alone
for the rest of the performance season. I fact, I don't think I will
ever drive tbe canyon alone again!
Text:
"0nce not so long ago; Saint 'Ann I s was an active nunnery. There
were' dver a hundred nuns who lived there. and a priest who stayed
" there to \,!:!!(;h o'.'eY' them. WE'll, it tlJrned nut thp orlPst couldn't handle
the life of celibacy, I guess, so I guess he got fr~endly with some of
the nuns . Pretty soon the sound of cryi ng babi es fi 1.1 ed the air.
Actually, they were a l~t more discrete than that--the priest would just
go get the poor unfortunate victim real late at night and take her and
their baby down to the pond and drown them. Of course it was soon
noticed that several of the nuns were ,disappearing, and so one of the
nuns, who was very pure and had no idea what was going on, was asked
to investigate and see where they were disappearing to. So one night
she followed the priest and one of his favorite nuns down to the pond.
When she saw what he was doing, she yelled out and tried to jump on
him to save the poor nun and her child. But it was too late--they were
already dead. The priest was really scared this righteous nun he hadn't
been able to victimize and blackmail would tell on hjm, so he grabbed '
her by the neck and choked her to death. Then he threw her body into
the pond.
The next mornin§, they found her body--and the priest was gone!
They searched for him for a long time, but so far, they have not found
him. They say the nuns that were killed are still roaming around up
in thp r~nvnn lnnkinn fnr ~ w~vtn rpvpnnp him--~nrl thpv ~lsn sav that
if you kneel down and look into the pond-from t~e right' angle, you can
still see the body of the righteous nun floating in the pond."
(Thi~ is verbatim, as I had him repeat it to me for this report.)
Dana Erickson
Richmond, Utah 84333
Logan, UT 84321
Utah St~te University
Folklore/English 124
Fall 1981
L- :<., /. I ~. I. It,
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Legend
"St . Anthony ' s"
Annetter~'ialous
Logan , Utah
198J
Annette r:alous lives on Logan, Utah.
She vvas born .i.arch 15 , 1965 in Chicago , Illinois . Annette
attended school in Logan , Utah . She graduated fro~ Logan
::i gh School . Annette ' s father is a practicing attorney in
logan, Ctah and her Elother is a school teacher . ;:)he is cur­rently
a student at Jtah State University. "1nnette enjoys
skiing and other outdoor activities . ,she ' s a active me:nber
of the.-resbyterian Church.
Annette Collected this story when she was in high school.
The boys VJQuld al\vays take the girls up to St. Anthony ' s
and tell them this story . The reason the guys would tell the
story was to scare the girls so that they would cuddle up
closer to the:::-n . The story was always very enjoyable to the
boys to watch the girls get scared. The girls always were
scared because usally they were up at St . Anthony ' s and the
setting would always start the:n hearing strange noises and see­ing
the red eyes of the Dov9:r:man .
Along time ago before there was a road up to St . Anthony's
(St. Anthony ' s is a nunnery up in Logan canyon. It has
a lot of big buil dings and a swimming pool . ) A certain man
would bring supplies up to the nuns once a month on his mule.
There were five nuns that lived there . Once he came up dur­ing
the night and he couldn ' t fined anybody. So he started
wandering around looking for them finally he found four of
the nuns dead in the swi,l1Ining pool. He then started look­ing
for the other nun, because he thought she might be in
trouble . Then all of a sudden he saw her up on top of the
,110untain with a dovernman dog with red eyes . So then he
knew that she was still alive and her name was Hexal . She
then started to chase him so he jumped on his mule and start­ed
to head back to Logan as fast as he could .
Now you can go up at night and they say you can see the red
eyes of the dovernman .{ everyone claims they have seen them .)
Karie Chatlin
Bountifui, Utah 84010
Utah State University
.2nglish
Fall , 198J
L:(. 1/ 1;(. I .17
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Legend
"St. Ann's Retreat"
Informant Data:
Robert Schwanavelt
Logan, Utah
February 8, 1983
Robert Schwanavelt was born in Logan, Utah summer of 1966. He is
currently attending Logan High School and works part-time at El Sol
Mexican Restaurant as a dishwasher. Robert is kind of a rowdy fun
loving guy and said he enjoys scaring girls. He is a member of the
Mormon chuch, but is inactive and apathetic toward it.
Contextual Data:
I collected this item from Robert at El Sol whenre:i I also work. He
asked me if I knew of a nunnery up Logan Canyon, and if so, did I know
any stories related to it. He had just gone there the night before
with a friend and a couple of girls to try and scare them. I knew this
would be a great opportunity to prime him for a collector story so I
asked him instead, what he knew of it, and turned on a tape recorder.
Robert learned about the nunnery (St. Ann's Retreat) from some friends that
had gone up there two or three days earlier. The following is a verbatim
transcription from a tape.
Text:
Me and my friend took these two girls up to the nunnery I heard about
to try and scare them you know; I guess what it is up there was a
place for pregnant nuns to go away and stay so they wouldn't shame the
churbh. There was supposed to be this one young nun named Anna or
something and they locked her up in this cabin. She had a bunch
of dogs as pets.
When she had her baby, I guess he grew up and went crazy and killed
his Mom and dogs and a bunch of other people cause he found out he
was a bastard. Anyway I don't believe all that crap about it so we
went to scare girls just for the fun of it.
We parked my car on the side of the highway by where there's a gate
thats locked closed that goes across a bridge and then up to it.
We went to the first building that looks like a castle and all of a
sudden one of the girls screamed and said she seen something running
through the bushes. We laughed and said she was crazy, but then I
heard something too. We went back to the car except I stopped and looked
back and there was a big dobber man pinscer just standing there looking
at me. Except I know it was a real dog, it wasn't no spirit.
Monty Hedin
Logan, UT
U.S.U.
Folklore 423
Winter 1983
(
(
Legend
"The Haunted Convent"
Jay Wilson
Logan, Utah
November 28, 1980
Jay Wilson, 19, was born and raised in Midway, Utah. He
is a member of the L.D. S. church. He is an avid snowmobiler
and loves to ski. He is presently ~sophomore at Utah State
University majoring in Ag. mechanics.
Jay heard this story at a party his first year up at
Utah State. There were both girls and boys at the party and
many "scary-!' stories were circulating around that night. Jay
was surprised when the Old Hyrum part was put in because that is
a story that circulates around the region he lives in, (Wasatch and
Summi t Co.).
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
There used to be a convent up in Logan, Canyon. It's closed down
now because of what happened there. There was this insane man that came,
some say it was Old Hyrum (but thats another story), and he murdered eleven of
the twelve nuns that were at the convent. He put them in a swimming
pool they had there. The twelth nun foundthem and as a result committed
suicide . If you go there at night sometimes you can see the twelth nun
wi th her dog wandering around. Some say they have even heard her crying.
Jan Taggart
Morgan, Ute
Utah State University
English 124
Fall, 1980
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Legend
Spring Hollow Witch
Informant Data:
Vicki Anderson
Logan, Utah
Febru.ary 11, 1980
Vicki lived aroun~ the Intermoun ain region most of
her life. She attended Utah State University and now
lives and works in Logan. Vicki is an active member of the
Mormon church with an Irish-English ancestry.
*************************************************************
Contextuc'll Data:
I was asking a group of girls about folklore concern-ing
Logan Canyon. Vicki related this story who had heard
it from a friend who's brother had been there. This story
was told and retold ~mong friends simply to scare each other.
While Vicki was telling thts sto""y the group that was
I
listening could hardly sit still, many had additions and
corrections.
*************************************************************
Up the canyon there is an old convent called St.
Ann's Retreat. Supposedly there is a witch who lives
there called Witch Hekady. This is supposed to be the witch
of a nun who killed herself at the convent along time ago.
Witch Hekady usually haunts the Spring Hol[ow Campground.
One night two hig~SChOOl boys were up there and started
YelJ.ing taunts to the witch. She didn't like this at all,
dogs started howling and lights came roll'ng off the hill.
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The boys got scared and decided to get out of there. but
the car wouldn't start. So tney started pushing as fast
as they could. The car didn't start until they were out
of the campground.
Caryn Wunderman
River Heights, Ute
Huntsville, Ala.
U.S.U.
American Folklore
Wjnter 1980
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LEDGEN:
TITLE: Witch Hekida
INFOR11ANT DATA:
Kaylene Kidman
Logan ~ Utah
November 11 ~ 1983
Kaylene Kidman was born on December 11, 1963, in Logan, Utah. She
has lived in Idaho and Wyoming. She moved back to Utah 15 years ago
and has lived here ever since. She attended grammer school, junior
high and graduated from Logan High School. She belongs to the L.D.S
Church and is an active member. Her ancestors are from England , Scotland,
Germany and Ireland. She's the oldest of three brothers and two sisters.
She r ecently is planning to be married. She is the receptionist/secreLary
at Orrni Data International. Her hobbies are cooking and sewing; she
enjoys all sports and loves to travel.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
CONTEXTUAL DATA:
Kaylene heard this story from a friend when they were in high school.
She and her friend were on ther way to Hitch Hekida's when her friend
told her this story. Kaylene said she was really spooked. When they
walked up the dirt road heading towards the cabin the lights turned on
and no one was there. She said she was really scared. , I've heard alot
of stories about this place, so when our class was talking about this
particular story I decided to ask a few people what they knew about it.
Kaylene seemed really scared just telling me about it, especially
having had the lights turn on in the cabin when she was there . After
she told me the story she said, "Doesn't it just give you the creeps?"
And you know what? It really does! I went to work later and I was
in the office by myself. I kept hearing noises, and it was really
scarey just thinking about it.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ~ * * * * * * * * * * * * *
One night there was this boy and his girlfriend who wanted to go up
to St. Ann's retreat and park. When they got up there the girl noticed
there was a green light hovering over the swimming pool. She didn't
pay much attention to it, until it seemed to be getting closer and
closer. She called it to the attention of her boyfriend. They noticed
as it got closer, that they could make out the figure of Hitch Hekida
in the green mist.
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and clawing at them. They locked the doors and just watched in horror.
Finally, Witch Hekida went away. They then attempted to start the car,
but it had gone dead. They waited for a while but nothing happened.
The boy decided he would have to go for help He told her to lock the
door and lay on the floor, and not to let anyone in but him.
After a while she fell asleep. All of a sudden someone was pounding on
the window just like before. She looked out the window and saw a policeman.
She opened the door. He asked her what her name was and then told her
not to turn around. She turned around anyway and there hanging in a
tree by his feet was her dead boyfriend.
(
Liz Johnson
Logan, Utah 84321
Utah State University
History-124
Fall-1983
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T.ale
Vern Larson
Bensori, Utah
November, 1981
~ern Larson yas born in Benson, Utah and has lived there
for the. las~ ' 27 · years. Vern is in his last year of school
at U.S.U.~ majoring in Engineering. Af-tee-graduating he
plans to leave Utah and make some money.
8eing raised on his fathers farn, he knoys that is not
the life for him, though he does enjoy hunting and fishing.
I was talking with Vern and some other friends one afternoon
when someone gegan telling ghost stories. Vern yas full of
them that da;. I don't think I have ever heard so many tales
from one person.
One particular story was new to me, it interested me very
much. Since hearing it from Vern I have heard other versions.
Witch Hecate seems to be quite the sorceress in the vally.
( Vern has never been to find her, but some friends did, he
related the story to me.
****************************************************************~
There was an old woman named Hecate l~ving in a nunnery
up Spring Hollow. She had some hounds, one night the hounds
turned on her and killed her.
To this day when the hounds hear the name Hecate ~hey begin
to HoYI and Howl until dawn.
If you are to go up to spring hollow and call for Witch
Hecate, you can hear the dogs howl.
*****************************************************************
Vern told me of his friends encounter with the howling. There
I
yere tyO guys that went "to check out the tales. After ~etting to
the t~p of the picnic are~ ~nd yaitin~ for the sun to set, they
began to call Witch Hecate. At first there was no reply, so .,
they called lowder and loudpr. Finally in the distance they
could hear something. The sound got louder and louder until
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they were sure it was the sound of dogs. They sat and listened
for awhile, the howling got closer and closer, by this time
they knew the ~ogs were very close and must have been very
large dogs.
Both of them set new speed records for running down out
of Spri~g Hollow and driving out of Logan Canyon. Neither one
has any desire to return.
Lonnie Allen
HyruM, Utah
Intra. ta Folklore
u.S.u.
Fall 1981
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Michael Carlisle
Logan, Utah 84321
Legend: "St. Ann's Retreat"
Michael Carlisle is my son. He was born in Brigham City, Utah, December 17,
1961. We moved to Logan when he was four years old and he received a
High School education in the Logan City School District. Presently he
is employed at Morton-Thiokol Chemical Company, is married and has a
baby boy.
Contextual Data: Michael heard this story while attending Logan High.
He and his friend Scott would double date and sometimes take their dates
up Logan Canyon and park at the site of St. Ann's Retreat. To frighten
their dates and perhaps encourage a little cuddling they would tell the
girls this story.
Text: Hedika was the head nun of St. Ann's Retreat, which was a nunnery.
It was her responsibility to keep things running smoothly. Sometimes
groups of miners and sheepherders would travel through and associate with
the nuns. Any babies that were born, Hedika would dispose of. She got
so sick of this terrible duty, and so aggravated with the misbehavior of
her sister nuns that she went crazy and killed all the nuns also. Then
she lived alone in the nunnery with a large group of dogs until she died.
Now when people drive down the canyon at night,sometimes they will see her
large pack of wild dogs standing beside the highway, with their eyes reflecting
in the headlights. Those who are brave enough to park at night near the
nunnery will hear the wild dogs howling and Hedika's voice mourning and
wailing.
*****************
I asked Michael if he believed the story. He told me the
he did believe was that it was a nunnery. I asked him if
on the girls--if they wanted to cuddle after hearing it.
"It depended upon how much they liked us."
only part that
the story worked
He replied,
Colleen Carlisle
Logan, Utah
Utah State University
English 459
Spring, 1984
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Urban Legend
"Heckada"
Informant Data:
t
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Troy Anderson
Providence, Utah
Summer 1978
Troy Anderson was born March 23, 1966 in Logan, Utah.
1
His family moved away shortly after. They moved back to Cache
Valley when Troy was in the Fourth Grade. He was not a member
of the Mormon Church but became acquainted with their teachings.
Contextual data:
While sleeping-out in the back yard of a friend's, the
conversation turned to ghost stories. The story I am about
to tell was told to me and one other, by a friend.
If you go up Logan Canyon to 3rd dam and cross the bridge
-k L~
into the Spring Hollow area or go the Q,Yarry up Providence
Canyon, you can summon the Devil's wife, her name is Heckada.
My friends's brother's girlfriend's brother had a friend
that did this very thing. He and a date went up to the Spring
Hollow area, for some romancing. After being turned down he
got out of the car and yelled the phrase "Heckada, come get me".
this was the saying that you needed to say to get Heckada to
appear. After saying it a few times he returned to the car.
His date was scared, which was his main intention for doing
the little prank, or so he thought.
After a few minutes of sitting there they began to hear
dogs barking, they looked up and saw a green glowing chariot
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pulled by six wolves, and a mistress with long flowing hair
at the reins.
At about the same instance the doors locked, the boy and
date was pretty scared by this time so the boy tried to get the
car started but it seemed like the battery was dead, nothing
would start or no lights would come on. By this time the wolves
were on the hood of the car clawing at it and growling. The
mistress stared into the boy's eyes and said "I have come for
you" . The boy freaked out and didn't know what to do, the girl
was screaming and crying. Then the boy remembered to say "In
the name of Jesus Christ I command you to leave", at the very
instance of saying that, the mistress and her wolves dissappe2 r ed.
The boy then started the car and returned to Logan.
Upon returning to his date's house they looked at the hood
and saw scratches that the wolves had left.
Troy Anderson
Providence, Utah 84332
Utah State University
Engl/Hist 124
Winter Quarter 1987
Comments: The underlying meaning is that the boy is being agressive, and the
girl is refusing, just like society wants to see and hear it. This refusal frustratesl
the boy, which in turn makes him bring terrible things upon him and the girl. And
at the end of the story there will be a negative image 0n sex, so it is not quite so
attractive the next time.
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Legend
"Witch Hackety"
Myself
Logan, Utah
January , 1983
I was born and raised in Idaho on a farm in a community
called Egin . I lived near my grandparents who were of
Scandinavian and Eng~ish ancestory . They waRd often tell stories
to me and all their grandchildren whenever we were with them .
This built a love in me to hear stories and I became fond of
history and folklore .
I am now attending U. S. U., majoring in Elementary Education
with a minor in Social Studies . Several quarters back , I took a
storytelling class . We often told stories to each other and it
was in t his class that one of the students , Polly Baugh from
Smithfield, related this story . She made the atmosphere in the
room very eerie--lights out and a candle burning , etc . I will
retell the story to the best of my memory .
There is a particular canyon near Preston where an old
Catholic monast~ry can be found . It was abandoned after a
particular event had taken place there .
During the summer time , many nuns would go up to the
monastery for a break or for workshops or other reasons . This
one time there was a nun who was quite contanckerous . She was
really against one nun and was always arguing wi th her , back­biting
, or fighting .
Outside one building was a cement swimming pool . (I think
it was either the mess hall or the sleeping quarters!) One
night these two nuns started arguing and wrestling around the
pool . The nicer of the two accidentally pushed the mean one
into the pool and she hit her head on the bottom of the pool
which killed her . This really scared the one nun and she ran
and got the Mother Superior . They didn ' t want to raise a fuss
in the camp and so the two of them hauled her body up the
canyon in the early morning hours and dropped her body over the
edge of some cliffs . No one really missed this nun because no
one really associated with her . They figured she had just got
discusted and left the camp .
The next night after the drowning , the one nun couldn ' t
sleep very well . The wind was blowing and something kept
banging at her door . She finally got up and looked out and
near the pool she could see this mean nun and she had two mean
dogs on a leash whose eyes were burning green and the nun looked
like a witch with red eyes . She started laughing at the nun
which scared her all the more . It was a very wicked laugh at that .
The dogs were barking and snarling with foam at their mouths .
When the nun looked out again , they were gone .
This happened several nights in a row. Sometimes they would
also see this image with a lantern walking along the cliff~s
edge where the body had been thrown .
One night the wind started blowing really hard again and
there was a slight rain . Again the nun could hear things bang­ing
on her door . She looked out and saw this mean nun with her
dogs . As she laughed uncontrolably , she took the lantern she was
holding and flung it at the building . The lantern broke and burst
into flames . The fire got out of control due to the wind .
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Due to the damage of the fire and other circumstances , i t was
decided that the monastBry would be closed down . It hasn ' t
been opened since .
Since that time , it has been a fa vorite spot for many
teenages to go to and scare each other to death . One night
Polly and a bunch of her friends decided to drive up the
canyon and take a look at the place . They had two cars and a
pickup.
When they arrived , they were all brave souls and got out
wi t h their flashlights (it was after dark ), and started
walking towards the buildings yelling "Witch Rackety , Witch
Rackety!" Suddenly the lights on their cars and pickup went
out . This really scared them and so they -' started running
back to the outfits . (They had parked them where the dtrt road
had ended .) They worked on all of them trying to get the lights
to go back on . One of them turned on and then they finally got
another pair of lights to go on after working on it for what
seemed a long time . They never could get the pickup lights to
go back on . They decided to drive out of there (fast) with the
pickup between the two cars that had lights on them that worked .
When they finally got back to the main highway , mysteriously the
pickup lights autimatically turned back on .
Trudy Neilson
ID 83445
Logan , Vt . 84321
St . Anthony ,
Rist . 423 , U. S. U.
Winter 1983]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> legends (folk tales);]]> application/pdf;]]> 12356050 Bytes]]> eng]]> Text;]]> Logan Canyon (Utah); Cache County (Utah); United States;]]> 1960-1969; 1970-1979; 1980-1989; 1990-1999; 20th century; 2000-2001; 2000-2009; 2010-2019; 21st century;]]> Legends;]]> legend-tripping;]]>
To the editor:
Much has been said about the incident at St. Anne’s retreat concerning the kids and their parents. I am amazed at the number of parents who have commented about this issue, especially those who have done so without all the facts.

The fact is these kids are very good kids and have very good parents and for you to judge them as you have done is unfair. Fact-These kids know they have done wrong and so do the parents. No one “whined” to the authorities to try to get anyone off. The landowners dropped the charges completely on their own for whatever reason they had. In fact, they felt bad for what had happened to them and the landowners have actually met with these kids and their parents and he has commented on what great kids they are.

Fact-The parents only went to the authorities to try and stop these men from continuing this kind of action again, and maybe against your kids. And you can’t convince me that just because you taught them it will prevent your youth from making any mistakes or to grow through their teen-age years being perfect. If so, I want a leaf from your book. If you think we condoned their action you’re completely mistaken.

Fact-The kids showed up around 9, not in the middle of the night as so many of you think. Fact-they showed up in small groups of 2, 4, and 6 not a large group of 30 with intent to do vandalism and attack poor Mr. Jeppson. In their pockets they had gum and chapstick, hardly any attack tools.

Fact-The kids were attacked, some not even on the property yet, and were taken by gunpoint to the pool, tied up etc. You know the rest of the story. This wasn’t a necessary protection tactic, it was a very cruel one that they laughed and joked about. He told them “it was a great adrenaline rush and to run because they would love to shoot their legs off.” If this is proper treatment for citizens to inflect on trespassers, what should we (as citizens) do to other Cache Valley people who speed, beat their children or their wife, or even avoid child support. They also have broken the law and made a mistake. Is it their parents fault (maybe) and should we tie them up and shoot at them? I would hope not.

I think as parents aw need to help offer the youth wholesome activities and not sit around and judge these parents on who has taught their kids the best and most valuable lessons.

Sue Griffin
Newton]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> legends (folk tales);]]> application/pdf;]]> 695549 Bytes]]> eng]]> Text;]]> Logan Canyon (Utah); Cache County (Utah); United States;]]> 1990-1999; 20th century;]]> Legends;]]> legend-tripping;]]>
To the editor:
I applaud April Anderson for her intelligent and merciful letter on the subject of the St. Anne’s retreat trespassing incident (Tuesday, Nov. 4). If any readers missed her latter, it would be worth their while to look back through their newspapers and find it.

I, too, have been astonished at how many of the people who have written letters on this subject have been so rabidly judgmental of the teen-agers and their parents. I hope they are just misinformed individuals, rather than the malevolent ones they appear to be in print.

I have the feeling that if they had been standing around the adulteress when Jesus said, “He who is without sin among you, let him vast the first stone,” (St. John, Chapter 8) she would have been dead.

Nancy Jensen
Logan]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> legends (folk tales);]]> application/pdf;]]> 400216 Bytes]]> eng]]> Text;]]> Logan Canyon (Utah); Cache County (Utah); United States;]]> 1990-1999; 20th century;]]> Logan (Utah)--History; Cache Valley (Utah and Idaho)--History; Cache Valley (Utah and Idaho)--Biography; Logan (Utah)--Biography;]]> Ricks, Joel, 1858-1944;]]> The Journal]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> SCAFILEMSS0389-001.pdf]]> Logan (Utah); Cache County (Utah); Utah; United States;]]> 1840-1849; 1850-1859; 1860-1869; 19th century;]]> Smithfield (Utah)--History;]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> SCAMSS0046Bx004Fd155-002.pdf]]> Smithfield (Utah); Cache County (Utah); Utah; United States;]]> 20th century; 1920-1929;]]> Agricultural College of Utah; Agricultural extension work--Utah; Farmers' institutes--Utah; Home economics extension work; Home economics extension work--Utah; Horticulture--Utah; Fruit trees--Utah; Arid regions agriculture--Utah; Sheep--Breeding--Utah;
Poultry; Agricultural experiment stations--Utah--Logan; Farm equipment--Costs;]]> Home economics; Horticulture; Sheep; Farm equipment; Experiment stations;]]> Agricultural College of Utah; Skelton Publishing Company;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Logan, Cache County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5777544 ;]]> 20th century; 1900-1909;]]> Logan (Utah)--History; Cache Valley (Utah and Idaho)--History; Cache Valley (Utah and Idaho)--Biography; Logan (Utah)--Biography; Mickelsen, Laura Ingemann, 1844-1934;]]> The Journal]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> SCAFILEMSS0389-075.pdf]]> Logan (Utah); Cache County (Utah); Utah; United States; Hoffland (Norway); Møre og Romsdal fylke (Norway); Norway;]]> 1840-1849; 1850-1859; 1860-1869; 1870-1879; 1880-1889; 1890-1899; 1900-1909; 1910-1919; 1920-1929; 1930-1939; 19th century; 20th century;]]> Agricultural College of Utah; Agricultural extension work--Utah; Farmers' institutes--Utah; Home economics extension work; Home economics extension work--Utah; Irrigation--Utah; Reading; Poultry; Dairying--Utah; Horses;]]> Extension work; Farmers' institutes; Home economics; Irrigation; Programs; Conferences;]]> Agricultural College of Utah ; Skelton Publishing Company;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Logan, Cache County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5777544 ;]]> 20th century; 1900-1909;]]> Legends;]]> legend-tripping;]]>
To the editor:
Once again I read the Herald Journal and find myself disgusted with some of the “prominent members of the local community!” Isn’t it sad that we taxpayers employ a dedicated police force to protect us and even though it may mean the loss of their own lives, they are willing and eager to serve only to have an officer of the court tell the public on the front page that the crime is approved by her because she did it to [too].

Ms. Demler, I am one of those “middle aged” “old -time Cache residents” that you’re laying bets on, and you’re not a winner! Not only did I not violate the property rights of St. Anne’s, but the group of friends I ran with didn’t either. Most of us were to [too] busy working to have the time for such nonsense, not to mention the fact that we were raised such that we didn’t go looking for trouble. I thank God every day for the hard-working, valiant, honest parents that taught me right from wrong! Not only did they teach me to respect others property rights but that we as fellow residents have a responsibility to watch over and protect our neighbor’s property rights.

I don’t condone the extent to which the guards allegedly carried out their duties, for which I am sure they are going to pay. However, Deputy Stauffer was correct when he stated that the trespass through posted fences and gates has been underplayed. “Obviously, someone didn’t want them on their property” was made very evident by the property owner. These teen-agers are all old enough to have known before hand that this was wrong, yet they chose to jump into the fire anyway. This time the fire was hot and they got burned. They should receive there [their] proper justice as will the guards. As the old saying goes “kids will be kids.” We can hold no malice towards them as they learn from their mistakes, but they must learn.

You, Ms. Demler, are a totally different case! You are supposed to be an educated officer of the court. The fact that you condone a crime that over time has cost a property owner more that [than] $1000,000 really rubs a saddle sore! Maybe if the $100,000 damage was to your house you would feel differently. We as parents need all the help we can get to raise teen-agers in this corrupt world. How do we explain to our teen-agers the consequences for violating the moral law, which includes honesty, or the civil law when an attorney at law justifies a crime because it was just for thrills? Isn’t that why Ted Bundy raped and murdered women? I know that attorney’s [attorneys] make their living from gray areas, but that fence and those signs were very black and white.

Ms. Demler, I’ve checked my records and neither I nor my business have ever hired you, so please refrain from speaking for “everybody” who is an “old time Cache resident.” This old-timer likes to speak for himself.

Reed Wallentine
Lewiston]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> legends (folk tales);]]> application/pdf;]]> 1226209 Bytes]]> eng]]> Text;]]> Logan Canyon (Utah); Cache County (Utah); United States;]]> 1990-1999; 20th century;]]> Community life; Mormons--Social conditions; Mormon youth--Social life and customs--Handbooks, manuals, etc.; Reading; Hobbies;]]> Mormons; Handbooks; Manuals;]]> General Boards of Mutual Improvement Associations of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]]> General Boards of Mutual Improvement Associations of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints;]]> Merrill, Harrison R. (Harrison Reuben), 1884-1938; Boyer, Claire Stewart; Stewart, Charlotte; Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Mutual Improvement Associations;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5549030 ;]]> 20th century; 1930-1939;]]> Self-Help Cooperative Board; Cooperative societies--Utah; Cooperative societies--Planning; Cooperative societies--Utah--History; Legislation--Utah; Legislative bodies--Utah; Bills, Legislative--Utah; Bill drafting--Utah;]]> Self-help movement; Cooperatives;]]> Utah Legislature Senate]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Salt Lake City, Salt Lake County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5780993 ;]]> 20th century; 1930-1939;]]> Legislation--Utah; Legislative bodies--Committees; Bills, Legislative--Utah; Bill drafting--Utah;]]> Self-help movement; Senate--Utah;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Salt Lake City, Salt Lake County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5780993 ;]]> 20th century; 1930-1939;]]> Legislation--Utah; Legislative amendments--Utah; Cooperative marketing of farm produce--Law and legislation--Utah;]]> Legislation; Amendments; Cooperatives;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Salt Lake City, Salt Lake County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5780993 ;]]> 20th century; 1930-1939;]]> Cooperative societies--Utah;]]> Self-help movement;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Salt Lake City, Salt Lake County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5780993 ;]]> 20th century; 1930-1939;]]> Clippings (Books, newspapers, etc.); Legislation--Utah; Bills, Legislative--Utah; Bill drafting--Utah;]]> Newspapers; Clippings; Salt Lake Tribune; Self-help movement; Utah Legislation;]]> The Salt Lake Tribune;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Salt Lake City, Salt Lake County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5780993 ;]]> 20th century; 1930-1939;]]> Gustav L. Becker; Scrapbook; Heber J. Grant; Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; Becco; Katherine Becker; Helen Becker; Trophies; Deer;]]> Gustav Becker;]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> application/pdf;]]> 2203258 Bytes]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Ogden, Utah]]> Agricultural College of Utah; Agricultural extension work--Utah; Farmers' institutes--Utah; Home economics extension work--Utah;
Housekeeper's Conference--Utah; Dairying--Utah; Fruit trees--Utah; Horticulture--Utah; Livestock--Utah; Poultry; Sewing; Sanitation, Rural--Utah; Sheep--Utah; Soil management--Utah; Canning and preserving--Utah;]]> Extension work; Home economics; Sewing; Dairy; Fruit trees; Canning;]]> Deseret News Publishing Company;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Logan, Cache County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5777544;]]> 19th century; 1890-1899;]]> Housekeeper's Conference--Utah--Logan; Agricultural College of Utah; Home economics extension work; Lectures and lecturing--Utah--Logan;]]> Home economics; Agricultural College of Utah; Extension work; Conferences; Lectures; Programs;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Logan, Cache County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5777544;]]> 20th century; 1910-1919;]]> Legends;]]> legend-tripping;]]> Martin Tige
Utah State University
Fife Folklore Archives
Logan, Utah
Mythology /Fol klore
Instructor: Brad Gibbons
Trimester 3, 2013
Mountain Crest High School
Hyrum, Utah
xvi
Table of Contents
Field Collection CD Cover Sheet
ii
Informant Release forms
iii
Collectors Release form
xvi
Table of contents
xviii
Cover Essay
xxix
Autobiographical Sketch
xxx
list of informants
xxxi
TranscriPtio"/ .. c... ....... \V
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Cover Essay
ST. Anne's Retreat
xviii
Now just a week ago, I knew not even the name St. Anne's retreat. But this past week, I
have visited the place that so many spirits call home. I myself am not much of an adventurist
paranormal wise. Just the mentioning of a spirit and I would nearly run for the hills. The story
behind St. Anne's retreat however intrigued me. A friend of mine named Silver Pena told me that
she had been researching about a place in Logan canyon called The Nunnery. She told me that
there had been many stories but the only story she had told me that really had me hooked, was a
particular story about how Christens used this camp for impregnated nuns. In this particular time
children born by nuns were believed to have been the work of satin, they were to be disposed of
at birth so that they had no chance to do damage to this world. One particular nun however felt
the need to keep her child, so she decided before the birth of this child, she was going to run
away. From the start, the head nun had suspected that this nun would have second thoughts so
she had decided to keep a close eye on her. When she had finally put her plan into motion, the
head nun was not too far behind. Realizing this once she had given birth to her child, she thought
to hide the child in some bushes and lead the head nun away and pick up her child at a later time.
Soon the head nun gave up, or so she thought, going back to pick up her child she was astonished
to find that her child was missing. She, went back to the camp and as she approached the camp
there was a peculiar object floating on the far north side of the pool. As she came to focus in on
the object she had a sense of recognition. Once she could see the object in full she saw that it was
her child lying face down, no more than a lifeless corps. All of the grief due to this event caused
• the nun to go insane and later commit suicide.
•
The property though is owned privately, meaning people are unable to visit this place of
folklore. "a former Catholic summer camp located a few miles up the canyon from Logan, Utah,
where
some young people were charged with trespass not long ago"(Toelken). I feel this place of
historic event should be given to the public however with some restrictions some people chose
to disrespect abandon private properties. I feel they should open it up almost as a museum just
for people who are just like me who would like to experience the chill, to be in the same place as
these said sprits and learn things first or in this case second hand. Honestly they could even make
a profit off of the place selling admission tickets.
What makes this place so great? Well there are many different things that are being held
behind the walls ofSt. Anne's Retreat. This place to me was a battle ground, nuns stayed here
fighting for the lives of not only themselves but for the children that they had brought into this
world. The pool at St. Anne's has taken many lives but has little to offer, visiting it, there is said
to be a cold spot in the pool where a particular nun has committed the ultimate sin, which is not
taking the lives of others but taking her own life. In sprit she sits at the edge of north comer of
that pool grieving for her lost child. Not only is there that, but in the basement of some of the
cabins there's said to have been rituals to have been taken place here.
•
•
Work Cited
Toelken, Barre. "The end of folklore. The 1998 Archer Taylor memorial lecture." Western folklore 57.2/3
(1998): 81-101 .
•
xxx
AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH
Martin Stephanus Tige was born January 6, 1996 in Sudan, Africa. He moved into the United
States in the year of 1999 in search of a better life, he soon found himself living in the state of
Utah. As a young boy Martin was very curious about how many things worked, taking apart
nearly four VHS players and almost able to reassemble the mechanism by age seven. He mainly
grew up all over the small cities of Utah but always somehow ended up in Rose Park. He
attended four elementary schools, two middle schools and two high schools, soon to be a
graduate from Mountain Crest High school. Martin was never academically the smartest kid but
was a quick learner when it came to hands on projects. This led him into High School Clubs such
as the Mountain Crest Robotic team, as the head designer and builder in his team. His
fascination however has nothing to do with what his dreams are. Martin hopes to become a
Law Enforcement after graduating from High School.
•
•
•
xxxi
List of informants
Silver Pena: Silver has attended Mountain Crest high school since sophomore
year and is hope in make her way into music. She has and outgoing personality
and is almost always caring for others
Camila Triana: Camila has also attended Mountain Crest but only for sophomore
year, then later moving to Intec High near USU (Utah State University)
•
•
CD Track: 1
St. Anne's Retreat
Transcription cover sheet
Interviewee: Camila Triana & Silver Pena
Place of Interview: Hyrum library
Interviewer: Martin Tige
Recorder: Martin Tige
Recording Equipment: Iphone 4, voice memo
Transcription Equipment: Microsoft Word
Transcribed by: Martin Tige
Brief Description of Contents: Silver gives brief interdiction about St. Anne's Retreat.
Camila explains in detail the tour that we had toke a week before
Reference: MT: Martin Tige
CT: Camila Triana
SP: Silver Pena
Note: as we had the interview there was some laughing in the background and also
people were moving around .
•
1
Transcription Paper
Martin Tige - MT
Camila Triana - CT
Silver Penia - SP
MT: So today's May 17, and we're at the Hyrum library; the weather outsides pretty good, looks
like its about to rain though. And I'm here with Camila Triana, and Silver Penia and we're here
talking about The Nunnery or better known as St. Anne's Retreat; so what's the story behind St.
Anne's' retreat, like how did it become known that way?
( brief pause)
SP: well um, there's many stories to it and the one I became mostly familiar with or the one I
heard a lot of was, it first stared as a camp and I don't remember the exact name of the camp
but .. um a famous building person he created it for a summer camp for him and his family so its
more like a summer home. and there are tons and tons of cabins in there and then after that he
gave it to his son who was living in New York at the time and his son was really famous here in
America cause he was one of the wealthiest guys, and because of him-because of him being so
recognized in the nation a lot of Hollywood movie stars asked him permission to use it as a
summer home just a place to get away and one of the stars herself was Marilyn Monroe she
stayed in one ofthe cabins, (chuckle) I don't know which cabin exact but she was one ofthe
famous people here .. Um later after they were done using it, he. Tried to give it, he tried to sell
it to the LOS church but they didn't want it and he tried the same with jahobo Witness and they
didn't want it so he ended up donating it to the Catholic church and they used it; well theres
different versions of this they say that they used it as an abortion clinic for teenagers or a clinic
where they'd have their babies and um they'd put them up for adoption. And as for the nuns,
the other version is that nuns who got pregnant they would be sent there in secret and they,
once they had their babies, they would be drown in the bathtubs which were supposedly filled
with holly water (brief pause) um so yeah.
MT: Kay, now you've been there ten- eleven times?
SP: (chuckling) Eleven times
MT: and every single time you've token a different group of people.
SP: um hm
2
• MT: What's the pool. The cold spot in the pool?
--
•
SP: the cold spot. Urn there's, they say like theres always a different version to everything but
for the pool urn. It was actually open I think thirteen years ago and they were using it as a camp
after the catholic- after the catholic church and a thirteen year old boy drown there in the pool,
no one knows how they say his spirit could be the one haunting the pool there's a certain spot
like on the east side of the pool that's cold. And the other version is that there was a nun who
had a baby. And she wanted to keep that baby and so when everybody-when all the nuns were
getting ready to sleep or something she decided to get her baby and run away with it and
manage to you know, wanted to keep her baby and so the head nun caught her and she started
chasing her. The innocent one is what we'll call her the innocent one with her baby an they
chased each other around the forest or the woods and when the innocent nun got, you know a
few feet away she was able to hide her baby in bushes and runaway and she hoped that when
she'd come back her baby would still be there so when she realized that the head nun finally
gave up she came back to pick up her baby and her baby wasn't in the bushes anymore so she
went back to the camp and her fear became a true thing like her nightmare just became reality.
She found her baby flouting face down in the pool and so that could be another reason why the
pool has a cold spot. Due to that baby and or the nun who commended suicide after seeing her
baby there she drown herself
MT: Okay, now we were there just a week ago and Camila will you explain what happened
while we were there?
CT: What part?
MT: Just run them through everything
CT: Okay, so we first went up there after touring this like run down chimney which wasn't to
interesting. But we went to the pool like Silver described and she wouldn't tell us the cold spot
so we had to find out where we thought the cold spot was and it was pretty ligament all of us
claimed it was in the same spot. Except for Martin, he got really warm
( background laughter)
MT: For some reason I felt warm when I got there
CT: yeah, so anyway we kind of went around the pool, kinda checked it out then urn after that
we were proceeding to look through the rest of the houses but they were boarded up for
security reasons and so we went through the rest ofthe neighborhood ofthe cabins and
discovered urn. One of the larger cabins had a wraparound porch with screens and one of the
doors were open so we went through the door and urn we kind of went inside to look and see if
t.
•
•
3
we could go inside of the cabin but it was still boarded up um. We went around that area and
um some people like me claim that we heard noises but we still haven't verified that um but its
all in the video and um after we weren't really interested the fact that it was closed we exited
out of one of the, it was randomly swinging doors and we visited the "fake" grave site and um
then we went um to look at the rest ofthe cabins at the end ofthe hill and um all ofthem were
closed at the top except when we went around one of the last cabins um it was like a beautiful
mint green cabin it was pretty cool they all had really cool designs and the architect was really
inspired just I don't know simple designed it was really beautiful so it's kinda sad that it has-has
a depressing story and kind of bad mantra with it because no one could really visit it I guess
'true grandeur' anyways so we went around that and it turns out the basement, it didn't have a
door just had like a hole through the cement and um I guess you could say was it like trails
siting like the stuff that locks the end of the house to the- to the floor? That stuff it was under
the porch so 'we decided it would be really smart to go under there and take a tour'
(sa rcastica lIy)
SP: we were hoping that somehow; well before- before it was all boarded up um like all the
doors were busted down and so; um before I went with you guys there was um we found our
way from the basement up to the stairs and I mean nothing was boarded up so, that's what we
were kind of hoping for (laugh)
CT: um hm yeah
MT: and we found something else instead though
SP: we did ( still laughing )
CT: yeah, uh we went in it was really creepy and some people were kind of wussy but you know
we at least got some footage anyways we went in and it was; with some of the lights we were
able to see where, what kind of rooms were in the basement it was just a cellar and a food
storage area; Obviously they were empty and then there was is one room that had uh. (small
pause) that had a shelf and uh coat hanger bar and on the shelf uh was a open uh, it was closed
I think. It was open
SP: it was open, I lost the page. Oh my gosh (laughing)
CT: Oh my gosh I wonder what page it would be interesting to know what page It was on cause
it was a child's bible and it was open, we don't remember what page it was open at but um; and
then there was like a short challis I guess used as like a candle holder but it obviously didn't fit
the candle and the candle was red and then there was a nail on the c-on the - on the wall and a
rope tied to the nail that was tied in a nus on a bear and the bear- and the bear was mutilated
in the eyes, both of the eyes were pulled out whatever, plastic button whatever they were both
_._----- --------------------------
•
•
4
out and stuffing was leaking out him the same with the neck-part of the neck that was on the
nus was also ripped and then urn. Going vertically there was a cut in the stomach and it was just
kind of creepy to see a mutilated bear that like an open pair, it was like an open scripture and
then a candle so we went in there and we kind of creped out well actually we went in there
twice. First time we got scared and we freaked ( brief moment with Silver) Second time we just
took in and get out and then urn. We decided to take a tour of the rest of it urn so were going
through the cellar kind of like backtracking if you were to go through the front door but
obviously it'd be the end ofthe tour ofthe house so we were at the end and we were going up
and it seemed like there was a dead end cause its really, really small in these sort of houses I'm
guessing if they're built in the early 1900's they still had small- small construction guidelines
and they're more building permits really didn't have like fire safety restrictions, so everythings
really small and urn instead of finding a dead end we turned the corner we all kind of creped
out because we were getting actually into the house and it was gonna be a realistic tour urn and
then we found that there was stars at the- at the - at the- at the turn of the corner of the wall I
guess and there were tinny and really steep and they went around a corner so they would be
like half of a spiral staircase obviously not as urn, grand I guess and so we're going up and we're
wondering if we could go through because at the top of the stars was a door. And so I had
luckily been the front; not; (laugh) and I had the flash light at least and so. Was it just me you
and Nick
SP:yeah, Yeah
CT: yeah, just us three anyway so this big huge party of children of three (laughing) so secure
anyway so we're going up and I flashed the light through the door and the door was open a
crack and I could see some graffiti and I was curious as to what it was because most times
people have swear words or do not enter or random I guess you could say as straight as you can
and frankly as you can like pictures of genitalia nasty stuff so anyway I was thinking it was one
of those things cause I've heard of that before and um instead I saw half of a pentagram and it
wasn't just a star pentagram or upside down stars because you could also draw a devil goat
face inside of it and do a whole satanic ritual with it so it kind of creped me out and in any kind
of situation when you're going in a unknown everybody feels really scared and there really­there
senses when you know you can't- you can't see very well your other senses are high end a
lot more and its one of those six sense tale tale sign when you just don't feel good it's a cold
chill feeling and you're like dude let's just get out of here so after seeing that sign I was like
yupp uhm not going up there not unless there was a big crew of people and it was like some
documentary and we had these big bal-bulky cameras than it'd be fine but .
•
SP: yeah you know and I was reviewing um the video I took while you were going up. You
yourself before even seeing the graffiti or anything you were like I guys I don't feel good I I was
like are you sure? You were like yeah I don't feel good.
CT: oh eah, I was like I don't wanna be a wuss or anything but I don't feel good.
SP: yeah, and once you looked at it you were like yeah there's not there's not good signs up
there
5
CT: yeah that's right not good I was like guys let's just stop. Yeah, so after seeing that I um I
don't like feeling scared a lot because I've gotten over it I guess you could say; after watching so
many scary movies you don't get scared sometimes I guess.
SP:yeah
CT: But in this situation I was pretty scared because my adrenalin was kinda rushing through
my veins. But I was trying to like keep it chill you know- like keep it chill
SP: (laughing) yeah you didn't look scared like
CT: that's what I was trying to do like you know I was trying to keep it together I didn't wanna
run out and scream and scare everybody. So I was like okay you know just breathe let's get out
of here
SP: I kinda felt like that though cause when I first saw the teddy bear
CT: and your like ahh.
SP: I was like guys this isn't
CT: and you ran out oh my gosh
MT: and as we were running out I bumped my foot and everybody runs out
( moment of laughter)
SP: one simple little noise and this whole thing
CT: well its cause I was like looking at it and um I don't know If I could say it in this audio (
looking over at Martin)
(Martin gives a nod yes)
MT: you can
•
CT: but umm the bear- the symbols with the bear reminds me of masonic rituals and so I was
just curious as to what it was but you guys hadn't heard of that before and so, I don't know If
you had heard of it you probably would've heard urn a bias pers- like a bias perspective as well
and I was just- I just wanted to see what it was like and what they had in there and stuff and so
when we shon-when we shined the light on it you were so scared like oh my gosh! What is
that?
SP: you know at first I was; I first noticed the teddy bear and I was like guys this isn't normal
cause at first you know in the process ofthe mind it's like oh someone's trying to scare you
know trying to scare you. But once I looked at the shelf I saw a bible and a candle and that's
whenl~artedhea~ngout.
CT: yeah because you - and then we thought it was blood earlier to and it was actually just
candle wax so I'm guessing they were trying to read the bible with the candle which would
make sense ritualistically but urn
SP: who would go in there by themselves though, I wouldn't dare do anything like that
6
CT: well if- I don't know I guess if it's abandoned and you wanna practice something that not a
lot of people agree with urn, you do it alone. Or maybe if there intent was to be alone to be
more satanic or whatever but I don't know you can't really judge that because mas-masonry is
kind of an obscure ritual not a lot of people know about they just know that it's either good or
bad. But it can kinda go in-between because like the mutilation we saw on the bear that wasn't
right.
MT: that was not normal
SP: that was not
CT: the different symbolism with the neck the throat and the gut makes sense with masonry urn
and then also the candle and anyway.
SP: well yet again they were no demonic symbols
CT: besides upstairs if- if my fear was right but I'm like oh my gosh I sees nothing but anyways
that was- that was pretty much it and after we kind of left were like okay we're good lets just;
and it wasn't it was barley even twilight it wasn't even like (both CT & SP) 'dark' and so I'm like
dude I'm glad we really didn't go at the dark or else things would've been so much more high
end and we would've freaked out; cause you were even saying when we were entering the
whole cabin complex it really doesn't feel that scary you know I kinda just feel like a chill. You
• didn't feel (brief pause) I guess your adrenalin pumping as much as it had the other ten times.
7
SP: yeah, well actually I'd say my first five times (mumble) but the weird thing is like every time­every
time I go there's always bound to be that one that one point where it's the depression
feeling that last a few seconds then leaves but like the first time the vary first time I went
(pause) urn (pause) I was- I was terrified I was so scared urn. It was actually my first time going
in a haunted place and uh urn after we were done, like I started feeling like all my energy just
going down that's the weird thing to because four of my friends entered the red cabin right
next to the pool and it was three guys and one girl and .. as soon as she stepped on the door
step urn her and my other friend freaked out, looked at each other and were like 'did you hear
that' and they both said it- it was funny they were like 'yeah' and so they both ran out and so
the other two that were in there ran out and uh and I was outside. I was like guys what's going
on-whats going on? And there like 'oh we heard something' and the other two that were in
there were like yeah 'we didn't hear anything you guys are tripping' later on through the day
we went to first dam and we started reviewing the video and clearly it was-it was recorded on
an ipod and you could clearly hear a woman in the background that sounded like she was crying
CT: oh was this the video you should me later?
SP: Maybe
CT: perhaps I think oh yeah
SP: but yeah she sounded really sad and uh it was just like (pause) I don't know how to explain
it - it was just a short amount of time but by then when we were reviewing everything I just felt
dead I felt drown like drown out of energy they were all joking around they were like 'oh the
spirits must have gotten your energy"
CT: oh yeah, that must have been true though cause maybe yeah.
MT: Actually while we were there I felt super light headed so
CT: Are you serious?
MT: yeah
SP: I'm telling you you're always bound to feel or hear something
CT: yeah, in my case what the heck?
SP: you're like woe I hear something
CT: and then I was like okay chill out, it could've been the wind
• MT: wait so what was the sound that you heard? (speaking to Camila)
•
CT: I heard the first sound urn the audio that I took with the video captured the same sound
twice so it was basically reputation but I heard "inside inside" but it was such a faint whisper I I
thought I was insane and I thought oh maybe it's the video recording you and your cousin
SP: and that's weird though, that's the weird thing I was like guys we cant go inside its boarded
up in a few minutes later I mean a few seconds later you hear that
CT: uh hm yeah I know
8
SP: actually when we were there my first time the girl that heard the moan not the moan. The
cry yeah the sad sigh urn we were in that cabin and we heard a thing shes like 'guys I see a man
sitting by the fireplace' and she ran out. We didn't see anything we didn't capture anything in
that but I find- I find it kinda interesting how her point of seeing a guy sitting next to the
fireplace and your point of hearing the 'inside'
CT: yeah but it was really faint to and I thought I was mor- when I was there it didn't sound as
faint as it sounds on the video recording it sounded like anybody whispering during a test
SP: like they were next to you?
CT: yeah, and it wasn't as soft either it was like a sharp whisper and so I thought maybe it like
when you play back a video on not like the most expensive video camera you have it sounds
kinda like sharp and kinda like small and then when nobody; I looked behind me and all the rest
of our group were taking a video
SP: in front of you
CT: and they were still currently doing it then I realized nothing was playing back and 1- I waited
a minute longer to see if anything happened and then I was like dude I don't feel good and then
I was like what the heck. Did you guys hear that and then I was like I'm insane and then when I
later heard it like I was replying it urn the next day cause that night I went to bed and I was like
I'm not gonna play that urn I wanna go to bed; cause so many times I've watched movies in my
room and then I'm like freaked out because I'm alone obviously it's just my room anyways so
yeah urn it was right before we had gone on a hike as a family so my sisters were there with me
and they were listening to it and urn I didn't hear it actually the first time and there like wait did
you hear that wait go back. I'm like wait did you guys hear that too than? And there like yeah
we heard some kind of whisper and so I was like so I'm not insane and urn so we played it back
and it was the said twice but it was faint I guess "You have to have special be really special to
hear it" no I don't know but I guess It does explain cause my sister Naomi has a really really
good sense of hearing like when I'm eating food she tells me not to 'chomp' like I'm eating
normally and you know when you're eating cereal whatever and you hear it? She hates that
•
•
9
sound and like anything she'll be like did you hear that? And she is the worst for paranoia like
anything, loh my gosh did you hear that?' anyway so that explains how she could hear it I guess
a lot better than I could when we played the video still I don't know just kind of interesting to
have experienced
MT: it's still kind of creepy but what was the practice with the bear?
CT: the practice with the bear is a masonic ritual according to; I'm not a professional at all 1- I'm
just; I've been interested in what's going on with different kinds of practices whatever and I
guess I could say when I started reading urn Dan Brown's da Vinci code, The lost symbol. Other
ones he's written, there all really full of syb-sy- like symbology and urn different kinds of I guess
you could say urn motives of symbols like different kinds of patterns and how symbols kinda
repeat itself through history and urn I was interested after I was reading it because he was
talking about how the Masons are kind of un-un- kinda- not under privileged cause most of the
really rich bureaucrats are Masons and it's kind of like this brotherhood and each time- the
whole point of going in this brotherhood is kinda like when you're sorority or a- what's the
other one called? There's like a female and male one, what's the other one called? Sorority and
SP: oh I have no clue
CT: it's like- like- it's like the is it an F? I think it F anyway those little clubs you go into when
you're in collage and urn anyway so the whole point is to kinda get in the group where you can
kinda be friends with them and the other point is especially in Masonry is to learn urn urn they
call themselves secrets because urn once you learn them you're not supposed to tell anybody
about it and its really strangely tied to Christianity which explains the open bible uh that's really
interesting I really wanna know what it was open to cause it'd be really interesting to find out
SP:yeah
CT: anyways so urn according to like what's been given by them and what's been linked by
people who've been in them it's what they do sort of thing kind of exposed them is that they do
different rituals kind of like when you get into a club and you get blind folded or something go
through these different tests but some oftheir symbology if you tell where you've learned the
secrets to other people urn you symbolically cut your throat, urn cut your stomach and I think
with the eyes I still haven't remembered exactly what part of the eyes but I'm guessing just
cause eyes are one of the main things we use in life as our sight and (Silver laughs in
background)
CT: what? What's so funny dude?
•
SP: sorry
CT: anyways I'm not really sure with the eyes though because lots of times the eyes have a
symbolic meaning as what you see with your eyes like that's the whole thing
SP: isn't it like you decide to go bind if you tell a secret?
10
CT: yeah, like they'll cut your eyes but the whole point of the eye is besides your hearing and
your smell I guess your eye sight is like one of the most things we use to and everyday like any
kind ofthing is like 'oh I saw it' but you trust me like you know so I'm guessing it's like one of
those things one of those senses you use the most so part of that whole ritual is if you tell the
secret they'll cut your eyes out I'm not- I don't know - I don't know if it's progressive order
each secret you tell like oh my eyes are cut out I'm gonna tell another secret or if they do it all
at once. I don't know. I'm not really sure but that kinda interested me and then that sort of
thing but I'm not an expert at all so I don't even know anyway that's alii know
MT: now just- With me I don't know I just kinda see that as see no evil hear no evil for some
reason
CT:yeah,yeah
SP: that's so true
CT: that makes sense
MT: cause its just if you see something I guess then without eyes you wouldn't be able to see
anything anymore so that's kinda creepy
CT: creepy stuff in the basement
MT: just don't go around fallowing into basements anymore
CT: yeah, kick the door open that's a lot better
SP: there you go
(laughing)
MT: im pretty sure if you kick the door open you're gonna find a super surprise
SP: a big surprise.
CT: a dead body or something
MT: something like that]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> Martin Tiege]]> legends (folk tales);]]> application/pdf;]]> 6818673 Bytes]]> eng]]> Text;]]> Logan Canyon (Utah); Cache County (Utah); United States;]]> 1990-1999; 20th century;]]> Legends;]]> legend-tripping;]]> Early date to insure [ensure] teens will be in valley
By Jacob Santini
Senior News Writer

The three men accused of assaulting 30 high school students in Cache Valley were back in court Monday.

John Jeppson, Christopher Doerr and Arthur Peasnall were in Logan’s First District Court to be arraigned for six counts of aggravated assault. Jeppson has also been charged with one count of forcible sexual assault.

The alleged crime occurred on the night of Oct. 10, when the three men restrained 30 teenagers at a one time Catholic retreat in Logan Canyon.

According to testimony heard in a preliminary hearing, the teenagers were trespassing on the property because they had heard St. Anne’s retreat was haunted and wanted to check it out.

When the three men heard the teenagers on the property they surrounded them with shotguns and handcuffed them together. Once they were restrained the men made the teens sit in an empty swimming pool with a rope wrapped around their necks, according to information obtained from the case file.

Deputy Cache County Attorney Bruce Ward said the trial needs to be held as soon as possible.

“Some of the victims are leaving Utah this summer because they have been accepted to universities in Texas and Virginia,” Ward said. “There are also a number that are leaving on missions for the Church of Jesus Christ (of Latter-day Saints).”

Judge Clint Judkins set the trial to begin June 8, to insure [ensure] that all the alleged victims will be in Cache Valley at the time of the trial.

During Monday’s arraignment, Barbra Lochmar, defense attorney for Doerr told Judkins that change in venue will be expected because of the publicity the case has seen.

In response Ward said, “I think we need to at least try to select a jury before we make a decision for a change of venue.”]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> legends (folk tales);]]> application/pdf;]]> 643281 Bytes]]> eng]]> Text;]]> Logan Canyon (Utah); Cache County (Utah); United States;]]> 1990-1999; 20th century;]]> Valley
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John Jeppson, center, walks with Chris Doerr and Arthur Peasnall on 100 North in Logan after leaving his arraignment hearing today. The three men are accused of terrorizing 38 trespassers at the St. Anne’s Retreat in Logan Canyon on Oct. 11. In court, a motion was made to continue the arraignment on Nov. 24. Attorneys for the suspects claimed the state hasn’t released all the evidence yet. The men have not yet entered their pleas.

[By Ryan Robb Oliver/Herald Journal]]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> legends (folk tales);]]> application/pdf;]]> 839061 Bytes]]> eng]]> Text;]]> Logan Canyon (Utah); Cache County (Utah); United States;]]> 1990-1999; 20th century;]]> Legends;]]> legend-tripping;]]> By Ryan Robb Oliver
Staff writer

A watchman accused of terrorizing 38 trespassers at the former St. Anne’s Retreat in Logan Canyon was arrested Monday afternoon by a Cache county lieutenant sheriff.

John Jeppson, 50, of Pocatello, Idaho, was arrested at his parents’ home in Providence by Lt. Von Williamson, the lead investigator.

Warrants for the arrest of two other watchmen suspected of assisting Jeppson have been forwarded to Tooele County. The other men have been identified as Arthur Peasnall and Christopher Doerr, Jeppson’s son-in-law, both of Tooele County.

The suspects in the case have each been charged with six counts of aggravated assault, a third-degree felony punishable by up to five years in jail for each count.

Cache County Attorney Scott Wyatt said he chose to file six counts because it was a “representative sample” of what happened Oct. 10. He said the number was also agreed upon by a group of parents of the alleged victims he met with last week.

Six charges, he said, “was sufficient for every aspect of the trial.”

Wyatt said he will also name only six alleged victims to testify for the state during trial. He said he didn’t want to needlessly stack dozens of charges and witness testimonials against the men.

The trespassers have accused the three watchmen of tying them together by their necks, handcuffing them and holding them at gunpoint in a swimming pool in two separate episodes Oct. 10. The mostly teen-aged victims said their lives were threatened, shotguns were fired near them, and one female said Jeppson felt her up.

“If these gentlemen had handcuffed them and secured them and stopped there, we probably wouldn’t be filing charges,” Wyatt said. “You’re entitled to use a reasonable amount of force to protect property.” But Wyatt said the men acted beyond what the law allows.

The sheriff’s office originally cited all 38 trespassers, but the trespassing charges were not filed. Property owners who allowed Jeppson to tend the St. Anne’s property were sympathetic to the treatment they received at the hands of the watchmen, Wyatt said.

Jeppson was released from the Cache County Jail on Monday on a $5,000 bail.]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> legends (folk tales);]]> application/pdf;]]> 414298 Bytes]]> eng]]> Text;]]> Logan Canyon (Utah); Cache County (Utah); United States;]]> 1990-1999; 20th century;]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho)--United States;]]> Oman, A. E.]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> SCAMSS0491Bx001Fd06.pdf]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho); Utah; Idaho; United States; Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest;]]> 20th century; 1900-1909;]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho)--United States;]]> Anderson, R. C.]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> SCAMSS0491Bx001Fd28-001.pdf]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho); Utah; Idaho; United States; Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest;]]> 20th century; 1940-1949;]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho)--United States; Mink Creek (Idaho)--Report;]]> Oman, A. E.]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> SCAMSS0491Bx001Fd08.pdf]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho); Utah; Idaho; United States; Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest; Mink Creek (Idaho);]]> 20th century; 1900-1909;]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho)--United States;]]> Oman, A. E.]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> SCAMSS0491Bx001Fd09-006.pdf]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho); Utah; Idaho; United States; Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest;]]> 20th century; 1900-1909;]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho)--United States; Big Creek Watershed (Idaho);]]> Oman, A. E.]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> SCAMSS0491Bx001Fd09-001.pdf]]> Bear River Forest Reserve (Utah and Idaho); Idaho; United States; Bear Lake County (Idaho); Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest; St. Charles (Idaho);]]> 20th century; 1900-1909;]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho)--United States;]]> Rothery, J. E.]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> SCAMSS0491Bx001Fd12.pdf]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho); Utah; Idaho; United States; Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest;]]> 20th century; 1900-1909;]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho);]]> Reynolds, R.V.R.; Winter, William;]]> application/pdf;]]> 2222848 Bytes]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> DNO-R4-1680-2009-0042-007ReportsByReynoldsAndWinter19081909.pdf]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho); Utah; Idaho; United States; Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest;]]> 20th century; 1900-1909;]]> Utah--Fish and Game Commissioner--Periodicals; Fisheries--Utah ; Game and game-birds--Utah;]]> Sharpe, John;]]> Deseret News;]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> SCA979p2-Ut1p-1897-1898.pdf]]> Utah; United States;]]> 19th century; 1890-1899;]]> Utah--Fish and Game Commissioner--Periodicals; Fisheries--Utah ; Game and game-birds--Utah;]]> Sharpe, John;]]> Deseret News;]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> SCA979p2-Ut1p-1903-1904.pdf]]> Utah; United States;]]> 20th century; 1900-1909;]]> Utah--Fish and Game Commissioner--Periodicals; Fisheries--Utah ; Game and game-birds--Utah;]]> Sharpe, John;]]> Deseret News;]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> SCA979p2-Ut1p-1901-1902.pdf]]> Utah; United States;]]> 20th century; 1900-1909;]]> Utah--Fish and Game Commissioner--Periodicals; Fisheries--Utah ; Game and game-birds--Utah;]]> Sharpe, John;]]> Deseret News;]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> SCA979p2-Ut1p-1899-1900.pdf]]> Utah; United States;]]> 19th century; 20th century; 1890-1899; 1900-1909;]]> Legislation--Utah; Legislative bodies--Utah; Bills, Legislative--Utah; Bill drafting--Utah;]]> House of Representatives--Utah; Committees;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Salt Lake City, Salt Lake County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5780993 ;]]> 20th century; 1930-1939;]]> Utah Cooperative Association; Financial statement;]]> Cooperatives; Finances;]]> Robins, W.B. (Wilmer Burke);]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5549030 ;]]> 20th century; 1950-1959;]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho);]]> Clark?]]> application/pdf;]]> 1878741 Bytes]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> DNO-R4-1680-92-0087-02ReportForForestAtlas.pdf]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho); Utah; Idaho; United States; Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest;]]> 20th century; 1900-1909;]]> People's Practical Government Corporation; Cooperative societies--Utah;]]> Records; People's Practical Government; Cooperative societies;]]> Willis, Iva Ong]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Salt Lake City, Salt Lake County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5780993 ;]]> 20th century; 1930-1939;]]> London, Jack, 1876-1916; Authors, American--20th century; Lewis, Sinclair, 1885-1951;]]> London, Jack, 1876-1916; Lewis, Sinclair, 1885-1951;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> http://uda-db.orbiscascade.org/findaid/ark:/80444/xv27206]]> image/jpeg;]]> 861112 Bytes]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/jacklondon/id/368]]> 1910-1919; 20th century;]]> Legends;]]> legend-tripping;]]>
To the editor:
The era in which the constitution of our nation was formed was preceded by many abuses against individuals and their property. Because of this, the founding fathers created the Bill of Rights to help define what “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” entailed.

Article 10 deals with the rights of criminals and those accused of crimes. It states: “Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.”

Several forms of punishments a God-fearing people will always cry out against are: verbal assault (death threats), physical assault and sexual assault. They should not be tolerated even in a parent and child relationship.

I am saddened by the many letters that contend that tie youths who trespassed at St. Anne’s were not entitled to the respect that is due all men, regardless of their crime, because of the sanctity of life which is given at God’s hand. Many have justified their feelings by expressing loyalty to the rights of property owners.”

Let’s remember that the property owners exercised their rights. They pardoned the youths on the grounds of the treatment they had received. I applaud this compassionate attitude. We, as a people, claim that an individual does not have to be tried twice for the same crime. These youths were tried, convicted and punished by individuals, not by a judge and jury; another crime against the form of government we uphold.

Judgements against the parents have been unfair and untrue. I personally know five sets of these parents. If any who have accused them of being unloving and irresponsible lived by them for several months, they would know that nothing is further from the truth. Unfortunately, many judge the character of God by the actions of his children, too.

The greatest tragedy of this incident is not the trespassing or the vandalism (which the youths spotlighted did not commit), but the feelings of self-righeousness [righteousness] and bitterness that have surfaced in the community.

Good parents have been attacked repeatedly, youths have been told they deserve unlawful and immoral treatment, a public servant has been condemned for uploading the rights of the property owners, and a newspaper that has tried hard to help parents protect other people’s children from experiencing similar terror and injustices has been criticized with explosive emotionalism.

When times are hard, the people show their true character. Let’s learn from this and humble ourselves so that future times find us united in brotherly love and upholding the sacred rights God gave us and we are blessed enough to have protected under the laws of our great land.

April Anderson
Amalga

Trespass raises question of values

To the editor:
I moved from California to Logan because I love the area and the values seemed better here. But I was troubled by the incident at St. Anne’s.

The caretakers seem to be the only ones who really learned something from the whole thing. They are being punished and they sure won’t do anything like it again. But what about the kids or their parents?

The kids and parents have not come forward and offered to pay the owners for the damage that has been done by vandalism and breaking and entering at Saint Anne’s. And they have not offered to help in the repairs.

The damage may not have been done by those kids, but that is not my point. I think that paying for the damage and getting involved in the repairs would teach them to value others’ property and to take responsibility.

Richard Primbs
Logan]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> legends (folk tales);]]> application/pdf;]]> 761093 Bytes]]> eng]]> Text;]]> Logan Canyon (Utah); Cache County (Utah); United States;]]> 1990-1999; 20th century;]]> Valley
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CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET
Interviewee: Pyo Nwe
Present: Pyo Nwe, Bethany Hanks, Chit Moe, Wes Van de Water, Meagan
Gill
Place of Interview: Pyo Nwe’s home in Logan, Utah
Date of Interview: May 18, 2015
Language(s): Karen; English
Translation:
Interviewer: Bethany Hanks
Interpreter: Chit Moe
Recordist: Wes Van de Water
Photographer: Meagan Gill
Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-
18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic
microphone
Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe
Transcribed by: Bethany Hanks, May 24, 2015
Transcript Proofed by: Bethany Hanks, May 25, 2015
Brief Description of Contents: Pyo Nwe describes her life in a Karen refugee camp
before she came to the United States. She explains what brought her to the Karen refugee
camp and what it was like living there, getting married there, and having children there.
She also describes the changes and difficulties that she and her family faced (and still
face) when they left the refugee camp and came to the United States.
Reference: BH = Bethany Hanks
BHI = Bethany Hanks interpreted by translator
PN = Pyo Nwe
PNI = Pyo Nwe interpreted by translator
WV = Wes Van de Water
WVI = Wes Van de Water interpreted by translator
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NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and false
starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcribed. All additions to
transcript are noted with brackets.
TAPE TRANSCRIPTION
[00:01]
BH: Okay, today is May 18, 2015. And this is Bethany Hanks with Wes Van de Water
on audio and Meagan Gill taking photographs. We’re all students at Utah State
University and are working on a project called “Voices: Refugees in Cache
Valley.” Right now we’re visiting Pyo Nwe at her home in Logan, Utah. And her
little son is with us, who is 8 months old, and Chit Moe is translating.
So, first we want to thank you Pyo Nwe for letting us come and speak with you.
So first, um, can I have you say your full name and birth year?
PN: Pyo Nwe Nwe
BH: Pyo Nwe Nwe?
PN: January 1st, 1978.
BH: Thank you.
PNI: Date of birth, January 1st, 1978.
BH: Okay, thank you. And what languages do you speak?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [laughs]
[responding in Karen]
PNI: I speak Karen and Burmese.
BH: Thank you. Can you tell me a little about your family?
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BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: In Utah, or?
BH: Um, if you can talk about maybe your family here in Utah and also if you have
family over in Karen too?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
[2:07]
[Baby breathing loudly]
PNI: Um, my family, we all lived in refugee camps and then we all moved to Utah,
which is, we were in Salt Lake and we came in March 3rd, 2008.
[2:25]
[Baby makes noises]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: We lived there for one year in Salt Lake City, and we moved here in 2009, and
we’ve been here ever since.
BH: He likes the microphone, doesn’t he?
[laughs]
So the refugee camp where you were at – where was that exactly?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: It is called Mela Camp.
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BH: Mela Camp? And do you have any idea where the location of that is in Thailand?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: We didn’t know. It is close to the border, and I know that it’s in Thailand, but I
don’t know whether it’s the south or which states or province it’s in. We just
know that it’s a refugee camp.
BH: Okay, and did you say how long you were there for?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: 1997 to 2008.
PNI: From 1997 to 2008.
BH: Wow, so then did you grow up quite a lot in this refugee camp?
BHI: Like, did she grow up in refugee camp?
BH: Yeah, like there as a young child and maybe as a teenager.
PN: Yeah, teenager.
BH: Yeah?
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yes, I was sixteen years old back then.
BH: Okay. What was it like for you, being there as a young person in the refugee
camp?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
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PNI: Well, at first I lived in Burma. I was poor – my family was poor, and from what I
heard, refugee is a better place than Burma. At refugee camp they have school,
and their schooling is free. So I decided to go to refugee camp for education
purposes.
BH: Okay, so what kinds of education did they offer in the refugee camp?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Well, the education in the refugee camp was – it’s not so great like in America,
but it’s better than Burma though.
[5:59]
[Baby breathes loudly]
BH: Okay, what kinds of things did you learn in the refugee camp?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: I don’t know if I learned much in the refugee camp because at first, coming to a
refugee camp was to study—
[Baby makes noises]
—but then, things changes, you know. Different circumstances occurred, and it
just changes.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: And I didn’t get to learn.
PN: [responding in Karen]
[Baby makes noises]
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PNI: However, I did help out the school and the teachers with a few things; just helping
out for a few years.
BH: Okay. Did you have any brothers or sisters with you, or your parents?
PN: Yeah, [responding in Karen]
PNI: I have three brothers, I mean –
PN: Three sisters.
PNI: – three sisters. One is in Thailand and the other is in Burma, in Karen State.
BH: Okay, we’ll get him some toys huh; let him play.
[laughs]
So are your siblings, are they still, you said in Thailand and Burma? Are they still
over there? Yeah? So, they weren’t in the refugee camp with you? Or –
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
[8:47]
PNI: No, they didn’t live with me in the refugee camp, but my older sister (the one
that’s in Thailand) she has a daughter who has a disease, and in order to cure the
disease, there isn’t a hospital in the refugee camp. There is, but it’s not very big.
So, they had to go to Thailand to work over there and to get her daughter the cure.
BH: Do you remember much about your life before being in the refugee camp?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yeah, a lot.
BH: Yeah? What kinds of things do you remember?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
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PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Well, I remember lots of things, but which one are you wanting to know more
about?
BH: Yeah, let’s see, I guess things about your family – maybe your daily, kind of what
life would have been like for you on just a regular day? Or maybe like the sort of
the political situation, if it was dangerous at all.
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: [speaking in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
[11:53]
PNI: Well, I do remember like from 1989 or 1990, well – not before 1990. I think I was
about 9 or 10 years old back then. We had, like I said, three sisters, and I lived
with my parents. Well, my biggest goal was to go to school you know, to have a
better school for me. Back then it was really difficult because the Burmese
military were coming and forcing people to become porters, and my dad was one
of them. After he has gone to do the porter thing, and then he lost his leg, like
during the war, and he couldn’t work any more after that. It was a really
challenging for my family. After a few months or a few days (I can’t remember)
my older sister, she kind of left us and she went to Thailand.
BH: Wow, thank you. So was education, then, I know you said – you mentioned
education earlier, and you wanted to get a better education. Were there other
reasons for relocating to the refugee camp?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yes, I wanted to go to school like really bad back then. In my village, my family
was the poorest out of everybody, and then in order to go to school there we had
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to have like a good umbrella, good shoes, good clothes – and my parents, they
couldn’t afford to buy any of that. And I kind of felt embarrassed, I mean, to go to
school there, so I though it’d be better to go to school in a refugee camp where
everything is free, you know. But then when I got to the refugee camp, I got
married – so I didn’t really get to go to school.
BH: So you met your husband, then, in the refugee camp? What was that like? Was
that a good place, I guess, to meet lots of people?
PN: [responding in Karen]
[15:33]
PNI: I think it’s a good place to meet with lots of people, but back then I was kind of
young. I was still young, and I had lots of thoughts: there isn’t anyone to support
me; my family isn’t here either.
[Baby makes spitting noise]
I guess that’s how I though about getting married you know – to find my
companion who, we can maybe support each other now. It’s just the thought that
came by.
BH: Very neat. So, your husband in here with you now? Did you all come over, did
you leave the refugee camp together? Yeah?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: Yes.
BH: How difficult was it to, I guess, go through the process of coming to another
country? Was that difficult or was it fairly easy?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Well, in Burma, it’s difficult there.
[Baby rattles toy and breathes loudly for a few seconds]
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In Thailand it’s the same thing. And here it’s still difficult.
BH: Yeah?
PNI: I don’t think that’s answering your question. Everywhere is difficult.
BH: Uh-huh. So, I guess, another way to ask would be is it difficult to gain entry as a
refugee into the United States?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
[phone buzzes]
PN: [responding in Karen]
[Baby coughs]
PN: Sorry.
BH: Oh, that’s okay.
[17:58]
[Pyo Nwe moves play set nearby]
Children like to be active, I know. I have nieces and nephews, and they’re, yeah.
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: I think it’s a fairly easy process to get to United States, you know, compared to
people who came here with visa or other things. Because we were refugees, then
it was easier.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: To get here, we received lots of help, you know. People helped us step by step to
get here.
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BH: Okay, thank you. So in the refugee camps, did they celebrate any holidays or have
any special religious days?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yeah, there are.
BH: Yeah, like, can you give us an example of one of those special holidays and
maybe how it was celebrated?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
[19:49]
PNI: The biggest thing would be, we have Karen New Year, and we have Burmese
New Year. For Karen New Year, in the beginning we had like a – I would say like
camp leaders, lots of leaders, you know. They will go up on the stage and just
give speeches.
BH: Wow.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yeah, Karen has it’s own culture, and Burmese has its own culture.
BH: So, what’s the main difference, I guess, between Karen New Year and Burmese
New Year?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Because I’m not as – I guess, I don’t have a good experience, like such leaders,
but what I can tell is that for Burmese New Year, they celebrate it on April. For
Karen, they do it on December.
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BH: Okay, so it’s mainly the time then.
[Baby coughs]
Wow. Thank you.
[baby makes noises]
So, when you were in the refugee camp, did you get any idea of what the people
in Thailand thought of the refugees in the camps?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
[Baby coughs]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Well, I don’t know about other people, but for me, you know, I was really scared
of the Thai military. Thai, yeah. Because back then if we had, say we have a
meeting, say don’t go out of the camp today, then I will never go out of the camp
because if the Thai military captures you, they will send you somewhere else.
Another example is my husband who worked outside the camp –
[Baby coughs]
He was chased by Thai military lots of times, but fortunately he escaped every
single time he was chased.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: What makes me more scared is that when I went back to Thailand one day, I saw
the Burmese military. They were taking people, you know. They were taking
people to – I don’t know where they were taking them, but they were capturing
people, so it makes me more scared.
BH: Wow.
PN: [responding in Karen]
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PNI: Yeah, for me, it was really scary, but I don’t know about other people.
BH: So, is that something that happens a lot – that maybe refugees leave the camp,
they sneak out or something, and then they’re captured by Thai military and taken
somewhere else?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
[24:44]
PNI: Yeah, I think it –
[Baby bonks head]
Ooh.
BH: Oh no, is he okay?
[Baby cries]
PN: Oh.
BH: Is he okay?
[Baby cries]
Head bonk.
[baby cries]
PN: Sorry.
BH: Oh, that’s okay.
PNI: He wants to sleep now. He’s feeling sleepy. Well, I don’t know about now, but
back fourteen years ago, I would say it happened a lot because I have seen it
myself. I lived close to the Thai military gate, I guess, their area, I kind of lived
close to where they lived, and what I saw was there was this –
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[phone makes noise]
– there was this woman, I would say
[phone makes noise]
PN: [laughs]
PNI: Sorry.
BH: That’s okay
PNI: Okay, what happened was this Thai military guy – he went out, he found a
woman, he took her to the camp, not to the camp but to their place, and I lived
really close to it. And they were doing some horrible things to her, I think. I heard
the noise and everything, but I couldn’t help. I was so scared. So, I think it
happened a lot.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Well, at the same time, not all the Thai military are bad. Some are really good
people as well. I remember when I was pregnant, I saw Thai military who was
actually helping me with stuff, you know. He bought me food, so that was really
nice.
BH: Did you had some children while you were in the refugee camp.
PN: Four.
[laughs]
BH: Four?
PNI: She has four.
BH: So, four. So, this one with you, he is number four?
PN: Five.
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BH: Number five, okay. Was that difficult? Either medically—I mean, did they have,
um, places where you know, there was a doctor around to help you give birth?
And then you know, raising the children in the refugee camp?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yeah, there were hospitals in the refugee camps. If I were pregnant – if I were
close to giving birth, I could go to hospital and give birth there. But what’s sad is
that, like, my sister or people who lived in Burma, they, there was no way they
could afford to go to the hospital in Burma, so it was kind of sad.
BH: Yeah.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: I think, personally for me, I had a better life than my sisters had.
[28:30]
BH: How different is it now, raising a child here in America compared with in the
refugee camp?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Well, before –
[Baby touches microphone]
– in the refugee camp, yeah, it was different raising a child compared to here and
in the refugee camp. Back there, I had four kids, my husband would go out and
work, and if he finds a job then he will bring us some money so we can buy good
food, good meal. But here, it’s like, he has a job, and it’s better than the refugee
camp, but here we have a different situation I guess. I’ve been here for seven
years, and I wanted to go to school, but because of a bad situation I just can’t go
to school here.
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BH: Is there anything that would help you be able to go to school here in the United
States?
PN: [responding in Karen]
[baby cries]
PNI: [speaking in Karen]
PN: [responds in Karen]
PNI: Well, before I was pregnant here in United States, I had a teacher, you know. She
would come and visit me and teach me English. So that was really nice, but she
moved to Colorado long ago. But now, I don’t expect to go to high school or
middle school. It’s not something I can handle; I know that very well. But I would
like a teacher who could come and teach me, because now that my children are
growing up, I have time to study; learn more English.
PN: [speaking in Karen]
[laughs]
BH: He’s cute. So I wanted to ask, although it sounds like you may have answered my
question already, but given the chance to go to school, what would you study?
Although it sounds like English is something that you would really like to learn,
but is there anything else?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
[33:06]
PNI: Well no. English is the main thing that I want to learn. However, I do want to
learn a lot of English so I can communicate on a daily basis. Let’s say if someone
were to ask me a question, so that I know the answer to that question, or I
understand that question so I can answer it.
BH: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so do you think learning English would make living in America
easier for you?
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BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Well, yeah, I think if I could understand a lot, but not a hundred percent, then I
guess it would help a lot, you know. Though it’s not a hundred percent, it would
help a lot.
BH: Yeah.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: And at the same time, my brain is not as good as American people, so it’s not like
I can really learn English. It’s not like I can learn English like a hundred percent,
does that make sense?
[Baby cries]
BH: I think if I understand what she’s meaning, you can translate it back and make
sure I’ve got this right, but, it’s difficult once you’re an adult and you’ve already
learned—
PNI: Mmm, yeah.
BH: one language—
PN: Yeah.
BH: it’s harder to learn another.
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yeah.
BH: Because I think the situation would be – if we were to go to Karen, I think we
would be in a similar situation.
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PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yeah, when I had a teacher, you know the one that moved to Colorado, back then,
I think I understood English, a lot, I guess. I understood English more than what I
understand now. Right now, I think I forgot lots of it, yeah.
PN: [laughs]
BH: Yeah. So, your first few months after leaving the refugee camp, you came to
America. What was that like for you and your family?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yeah, I think it was kind of a little bit challenging. When me and my family first
came to America, there weren’t a lot of Karen people, and we really didn’t know
a lot about America I guess. Well, at first, people were giving us those apple juice
– we thought it was oil, so we didn’t want to touch it. And then when they gave us
lotion, we didn’t know what it is, so we use it for our face because it smells nice,
right? If we wanted to say something, there weren’t any interpreters back then.
And if we wanted to go buy groceries, we didn’t even know where to go.
BH: Wow. So, what did you end up doing when you needed to buy groceries? Did you
end up – was there someone around who was also from Karen who helped?
PN: [responding in Karen]
[37:36]
PNI: Yeah, it wasn’t Karen people that helped my family. There weren’t many Karen
people like I said. It was people from the church. They pretty much helped us
with everything, I guess. Taking us to the hospital, you know, taking us to go
shopping, buying us stuff – yeah, from the church.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Oh, yeah, what I remember is that my oldest daughter – she had like a tooth pain
back here, the upper one, back here. We went to hospital, you know, and the
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doctor looked at it, but the doctor took one tooth out, but it was the one at the
bottom.
BH: Oh no.
PNI: But that one had cavities so it was okay, but the one that hurts was the one on top.
BH: So, it was on the top left?
PNI: Yeah, top.
BH: And he took out the bottom left.
PNI: The bottom left.
BH: Okay.
PN: [laughs]
[speaking in Karen]
PNI: I had to take my daughter to the hospital again to take the other one out, the upper
left one.
BH: How did you communicate that with the dentist, or the man who was working on
her mouth?
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: We were just using, I guess, sign language – kind of this, that. But we had people
from the church, like one person who took us to the dentist, but back then there
was no interpreters, so we can’t tell him what was going on. We just tried to show
him this and that.
BH: Yeah, with your hands?
PNI: Yeah, all without sound.
PN: [responding in Karen]
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PNI: I didn’t know it either, that she had a tooth that was hurt, but my daughter just
told me that it hurts. But thought the doctor already took, it was the one on the
bottom already, but it still hurts.
BH: So, this church that you mention that helped you? Is this the church that you, or
the religion that you take part of?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
[40:37]
PNI: It’s not my religion, that church, but they have a lot of people, you know. It
doesn’t matter whether you’re that – whether you come from that religion or not.
And they help a lot of Burmese and Karen refugees.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yeah, everybody who’s a refugee doesn’t know anything. So they help with
everybody I guess.
[Phone starts ringing]
BH: Is that you’re phone—no?
PN: [speaking in Karen]
PNI: It’s a broken phone.
BH: Oh.
[laughs]
PN: [speaking in Karen]
BH: Oh, okay.
PNI: It plays it every morning.
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BH: Okay.
[laughs]
BH: So, do you remember what the name of that church was?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: No, but it’s in Salt Lake. It’s the LDS church.
BH: Okay.
[Baby makes noises]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: It’s around 300 East.
BH: Okay, in Salt Lake City?
PNI: Yeah, in Salt Lake City.
BH: Okay.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: I think until today, they’re still helping people who are other refugees.
BH: Okay. Let me see.
[baby makes noises]
BH: So, you mentioned that here in Logan, your husband has a job? What work does
he do?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
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PNI: He works at JBS. He cuts meat. That’s what he does – JBS, yeah.
BH: Okay. And I think—so you mentioned in the refugee camps, your husband would
have to leave the camp to work? Was there like a specific job that he had? Or was
he leaving the camp to find a job?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yeah, he had to look for work, you know, in the refugee camp – outside of
refugee camp, I mean.
BH: Wow.
PN: [responding in Karen]
[Baby shakes toy]
[43:38]
PNI: Yeah, it just really depends on the day. So, one day you find a job, then you get
paid. One day, if you can’t find a job, then you don’t get paid.
BH: So what kinds of jobs could be found in that way? What sorts of work could he
find?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Well, if it’s around May, then he would work as a, like in a cornfield, where he
has some kind of corn.
BH: Kind of seasonal—
PN: Yes
PNI: Yes, depends on –
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BH: Whatever was available? Those kinds of things.
PNI: Yeah.
BH: Okay. Let’s see. Is there anything that you wish that the people of Logan knew
about you or your family? Or kind of your culture in general?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Well, I guess I don’t know, you know because, my family we’re from refugees,
you know, and we didn’t know about America a lot. And today we still don’t
know a lot about Americans I guess. We just kind of need help, you know. That’s
basically what she just said.
BH: Okay, so it’d be good if we could all find a way maybe to learn more about each
other, yeah?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yeah, sometimes, I don’t know, if we’re in trouble or something – we just don’t
know what to do. We just kind of need a guide, I guess.
PN: [responding in Karen]
[47:17]
PNI: Yeah, we’re just kind of a little scared and don’t understand a lot here, so it would
be nice just to get help.
BH: Okay, I think I have – I have one more question. Do you think you will ever go
back to Burma, to Karen State?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
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PNI: Yeah, I guess I would want to go back and visit Burma, but I’m not a hundred
percent sure if I want to go back and live there permanently, you know. Yeah, I
just don’t have any plans yet for that.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: At the same time, I’m not a hundred percent sure if I want to live in the United
States forever either. So yeah, I’m just not planning yet.
BH: Mm-hmm.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: And the other reason for me to be staying here is for my children. They have a
better education here.
BH: I guess just one question going off of that – do you think you would ever want
your son here, who was born in America, do you think you would want him to see
the land where you came from and know that people and that language?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yeah, like I said, I grew up as a refugee, and I wanted to go back to school but I
couldn’t. But now I’m here in United States. I want to give my children the
opportunity to go to school here, graduate, you know – have a better education
here. After then, I would like them to go back to Burma and help out other people
you know, to tell them what they learned; to give back to the people in Burma.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: For me, I want to help my people you know, but I can’t. I know I can’t. But for
my children, yeah, sure they can one day.
BH: Well thank you. I think that’s all of my questions, but I want to see if either Wes
or Meagan – if they have any questions they’d like to ask, if that’s okay?
PN: Okay, I have a lot of time.
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BH: See, your English is good!
[51:19]
WV: I guess I was kind of curious, if you’re not LDS – and I notice you have a picture
of the Logan temple up on the wall – what is your religious background if you’re
not LDS?
WVI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: [speaking in Karen]
PN: [speaking in Karen]
PNI: Well, back to the refugee camp, I was Buddhist. My whole family was Buddhist.
But here, me, my husband and –
[speaks in Karen]
– and my oldest daughter, us three – we converted to LDS.
WV: Okay
BH: Okay
PNI: We already have, yeah.
PN: [speaking in Karen]
PNI: So I guess there are like four more left in my family, still isn’t LDS.
PN: [speaks in Karen]
PNI: Well, what I want to say is that it all depends on my daughters I guess. It doesn’t
matter what religions they choose. It’s all up to them. We don’t have any
objection to anything.
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PN: [speaks in Karen]
PNI: For me, I chose it myself, to become LDS. It was my decision.
BH: Okay, any other questions? No? Well thank you. So I think that’s the end of our
interview. It is, it’s 11:58 AM, I don’t know if I mentioned, the starting time was
about 11:04 or 11:05. So thank you, Pyo Nwe, and your little son. So, thanks to
both of you.
PN: [laughs, responds in Karen]
[53:28]]]> Pyo Nwe, 1978]]> Gill, Meagan]]> Chit Moe]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Hanks, Bethany, 1989]]> Hanks, Bethany, 1989]]> transcripts;]]> application/pdf]]> 170153 Bytes]]> eng; kar]]> Text;]]> Burma (Karen State); Thailand (Mela Camp); Salt Lake City (Utah); Logan (Utah);]]>