Eritrea; Eritreans; Families; Refugees; Ethiopia; Logan, UT; Culture; Tigrinya; English; Education; International Refugee Commission; Refugee Camps; Work; Eritrea-- Food; Afeworki Woldemichael-- Interviews]]> CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET
Interviewee: Afeworki Woldemichael
Present: Afeworki Woldemichael, Heidi Williams, Magen Olsen, Berhane Debesai
Abraha, Hilary Warner-Evans
Place of Interview: Mr. Woldemichael's apartment in Logan, Utah
Date of Interview: 17 May 2015
Language(s): Tigrinya; English
Interpretation: Berhane Debesai Abraha: Live translator
Interviewer: Hilary Warner-Evans
Recordist: Magen Olsen
Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL
broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone
Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe
Transcribed by: Hilary Warner-Evans, May 21, 2015
Transcript Proofed by: Hilary Warner-Evans, May 25, 2015
Brief Description of Contents: Afeworki Woldemichael talks about his family and home in
Eritrea. He discusses his time in a refugee camp in Ethiopia, where he met his wife and had two
children, his journey to the United States, living in Connecticut, Idaho, and Utah. He discusses
his adjustments to life in the United States, and expresses hopes to improve his English to be
better able to communicate with the people of Logan. He talks about what the future of his
family will be like when his wife and children come join him.
Reference: HWE= Hilary Warner-Evans (Interviewer)
HWEI= Hilary Warner-Evans' words being interpreted by
translator
AW= Afeworki Woldemichael (Interviewee)
AWI= Afeworki Woldemichael's words being interpreted by
translator
BDA= Berhane Debesai Abraha
HW= Heidi Williams
NOTE: The interview was conducted with the assistance of a live translator, Berhane Debesai
Abraha. The interpreter arrived about ten minutes later than the interviewer, photographer, and
recordist but is present from the beginning of the transcript. False starts, pauses, or transitions in
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page 2
dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcript. All
additions and added information to transcript are noted with brackets.
TAPE TRANSCRIPTION
[00:01]
[Checking microphone. Indistinguishable talk from HWE, BDA, and AW. AW tapping
mic.]
HWE: Okay. It's May 17th 2015. This is Hilary Warner-Evans interviewing Afeworki
Woldemichael, a member of the Eritrean community here in Logan, Utah. And we're at
his apartment in Logan. Also present is Berhane Debesai Abraha, who is translating, from
Tigrinya and Magen Olsen, who is doing the recording, and Heidi Williams, doing
photography. So, can you give your full name again and your birth year?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya]
AW: Okay. May 24, is birthday next Monday [laughs]
BDA: [quietly] Sunday.
AW: Yeah, my–. Yeah, next Sunday. Yeah.
AWI: His birthday is May 24th [unclear]
AW: Yeah.
HW: [to BDA] And yours is twentieth.
BDA: Mm-hm
AW: May 24.
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: 1979
AWI: Yeah. May 24th 1979.
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: Afeworki Woldemichael.
HWE: And what languages do you speak?
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AW: Tigrinya.
HWE: Can you tell me about your family?
AW: Yeah.
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: Okay.
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to Interviewee.]
AW: Okay First, my brother, Nguse Gebreyohannes [??]. Gebreyohannes. And the last name,
Woldemichael. Woldemichael. By Tigrinya, Woldemichael. By English, Woldemichael.
[laughs]
[02:16]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: Yeah.
AWI: Yeah, his oldest brother is Nguse Woldemichael, but the way we write it is different so
we– [Speaks in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: Gebreyohannes.
AWI: Nguse Gebreyohannes Woldemichael. Okay.
AW: Second– My mother born ten people.
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: Yeah.
HWE: Wow.
AWI: His mother have ten children.
AW: And we have seven people. And three people is died.
AWI: He's got seven siblings and three of his siblings, they died. Deceased.
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AW: Two brothers in the independence. [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
AWI: One of his brothers, he died when we're struggling for independence. That means before
1991 against Ethiopia, the war. And the other brother died when we were defending our
country in the second war between 1997 to 2001. And his eldest brother he died from too
much alcoholism.
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
[04:12]
AWI: Do you guys need the names of all his siblings?
HWE: [hesitates] Probably not, but–
HWEI: [Repeating statement in Tigrinya]
HWE: –I don't know.
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
AW: Nine boys and one girl. [laughs]
AWI: He got eight brothers and one sister including him as one of the ten. So now he got six
brothers and one sister.
AW: Yeah.
HWEI: Five brothers?
AW: Six brothers. One–
HWEI: One sister.
AW: One sister.
HWEI: Or five brothers. [Asking question in Tigrinya]
AW: Yeah. [laughs] [Speaking in Tigrinya]
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AWI: He has five brothers and one sister. Including him there are seven surviving siblings.
HWE: And you have a wife too, right?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: Yes.
HWE: Yeah. Do you have any children?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: Yeah. Two boys.
HWE: And are they back in Eritrea?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: They are in the Ethiopian refugee camp.
HWE: Okay. How old are your children?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: One, four years. And the other, [speaks in Tigrinya.]
AWI: His oldest is four years and his youngest, he will be two in September.
[06:04]
HWE: What ethnic or religious community do you consider yourself to be a part of?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: Orthodox.
HWEI: Eritrean Orthodox mission?
AW: Yeah.
AWI: He is a follower of the Eritrean Orthodox church.
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HWE: And you are a follower of the church here in Logan, right? Or, I mean, not Logan but in
Utah.
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya].
AW: Yeah.
HWE: Can you tell me about your birth county?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
AW: My country very good, has mountains. All the mountains. Utah, the same in Utah.
[laughs] Good country. [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He says, Eritrea is beautiful. It has so many mountains just like Utah. It has highlands and
lowlands. It has two seasons.
HWE: And are you– You're from the highland part?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He is from the lowlands.
HWE: Oh, okay. So, what did your family do for work? Were they a farming family?
[8:07]
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: They were irrigation farmers.
HWE: Okay.
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
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AWI: Yeah, they are irrigation farmers.
AW: Yes.
HWE: What kinds of crops did they grow?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya]
AWI: Corn, Sorghum. Do you guys know Sorghum? It grows like corn but there's grains on the
top.
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya].
AWI: And Dagusa.
AW: [laughs]
AWI: I told you, remember, it's used for local drinks. They raise it, but– [speaking in Tigrinya
to interviewee.]
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.] [laughs]
AWI: He doesn't know how to call it in English, but we just call it Dagusa and we use it for
drinks, local drinks. And, is it called sesame? It's a grain. They use it for oil? Sesame.
HWE: Yeah, sesame.
AWI: Yeah, sesame.
HWE: How long did you live in Eritrea?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: All day. [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: All my life until I moved to the Ethiopian refugee camp.
HWE: How old were you when you went to the camp?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
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AWI: He was twenty-seven going to twenty-eight years.
HWE: Why did you leave Eritrea?
[10:00]
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: There was no job and no job opportunities so I just wanted to improve my life and I
moved for a another place.
HWE: And what was the experience like of leaving?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: His home town is near the border of Eritrea and Ethiopia and it was a war. Eritrea and
Ethiopia, they are in kind of semi-war yet. And where he raised, the area he was raised,
he knows everything, where to go, which to go and he knows which front line, which
lines are Ethiopian front lines. So it's easy for him. He can go daytime or nighttime
because he knows who is where so it was not a big deal for him to cross the border.
[12:00]
HWE: So when you crossed the border, you went to Ethiopia. And were you trying to go
anywhere– What was your final destination you were attempting to go to?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya].
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: Yeah, when he leaving his home town in Eritrea, he got two options. His first option was
to stay in the refugee camp and to work to America and other countries, maybe Europe,
maybe Australia. If that option was not possible, his second option was to go to Sudan,
Libya, cross the mediterranean and to go to Europe.
HWE: Okay. What was your experience like in the refugee camp?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AWI: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
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[BDA's phone rings and he turns it off.]
[14:00]
AWI: He said, life was tough in the refugee camp because they didn't give them anything. At
first, they were giving them only fifteen kilos of wheat.
AW: Per month.
AWI: Per month. Sometimes you don't have money to grind them and make them into bread or
something. Sometimes he just boiled them, put salt on it, and just eat it. But after that,
some of them, they get money, borrow it from friends and some of them they just get– Or
they have to work for themselves in that area, farming, whatever they can.
HWE: And did you end up working while you were there?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: Yeah, in the surrounding areas near the refugee camp they were working physical
work, laborers, sometimes on the grain harvest. In seasons they work as weeders because
we have to weed the fields by our hand.
HWE: And, so with the money you earned by working eventually could you buy more food?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[16:08]
AWI: So at first they were giving them only 15 kilos of wheat and a liter and a half of oil so
they could not do anything with it. So they work and they earn money and they have to
buy tomatoes, onions, and other stuff to make their own soup. But starting 2009 they
started giving them around 800 milligrams of sugar, might be around two pounds of
sugar, per month. And some times they were giving them some kind of soup. It's made up
of wheat or something like that. So the only thing they have to do is work and earn
money and make their own food.
HWE: What kind of medical care was available at the camp?
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HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: The medical care, that was okay. But the problem was the medical care was provided by
IRC. I think it's the International Refugee Commission. But all the doctors are Ethiopians
and they speak Amharic. And they just wanted to speak Amharic. They don't want to talk
in Tigrinya. And they don't know Tigrinya. But relatively they are okay and if you can
communicate with them you get good medical care.
[18:04]
HWE: So was your wife with you in the camp?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: Okay, his wife is Ethiopian. He met her. She was his friend, or girlfriend. So they were
living together when he got his process finished and he already got his visa. They make it
official. They get married. [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: On September 20th, 2012 they make it official because he was coming here. If he has to
claim her as a girlfriend that doesn't work. He has to marry her. But they met in Ethiopia
in 2010 and they were staying together.
HWE: So when you were in the camp you were living with your wife for most of that time?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
[19:48]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
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HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He met his wife in the Ethiopian villages because he was going over there to work. Then
when they get pregnant, when she had a baby, he brought her over to the refugee camp
because the baby is his. The baby is Eritrean even though he was born in Ethiopia. So he
brought her to the camp and the baby has to register as a refugee like him. Then he
convinced her, hey, better stay with me. If I get a chance to go abroad then I'm going to
claim you as my wife. Then she stayed with him. But first, until she got her first baby,
she was living with her parents and he was living in the camp but he was working outside the
camp. And at that time he saved some money and he bought a carriage, something you
pull with the horse. [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: But sometimes they pull it with a donkey. So he was working with it transporting stuffs
over there.
HWE: And can you describe your living conditions in the camp?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.] [coughs] Sorry, I have to drink water. [Repeating
question in Tigrinya.]
[21:51]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: Yeah, at first life was so hard. Because of all the people over there. They speak the same
language because they are on the border with Eritrea, but all cultures and the way we
think is different. And we are enemies. We are at war. So at first we don't want to talk to
them. They don't trust us. We don't trust them. But we [??] them. We work with them.
We start trading with them, buying stuff from them. And they buy stuff from the refugees.
And then we start to just become kind of one people. Nobody cares for the refugees and
that. But at first it was hard.
HWE: And were you living with anyone else when you were in the camp?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya]
[23:45]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya]
HWEI: [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.]
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AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[26:05]
AWI: Yeah, at first when he was crossing into Ethiopia in 2005, you know, when the refugees,
when they, you go in the office, they call, they give you some paper work. They arrange
to interview you and they give you some coin to get the wheat and the oil. But they just
say, hey, you can get wheat and oil with this one but you are on your own so he doesn't
have anything. He doesn't know anyone in the camp. So there was a tea shop over there
and the tea shop was just made up of tin but they sell teas. So he was sitting over there
and some of the refugees who came before him, maybe a year or so, they saw him and
they told him, “Oh, you look like you're new. Where do you live.” And he said, “I just
arrived here. They drop me here by a car. I have no where to go.” And they told me,
“Okay, you can live with us.” And he lived with them for two years. Then after that he
started working in the surrounding areas and he started saving some money and over
there you just build your own home. Nobody owns the land. It just belongs to the refugee
camp. So there were some people, they were going to Israel in the Middle East. So they
just sold their home to him and he bought that home and he started living by himself. And
in 2008 the refugee commission from the United States, they started registering to come
to the United States and they got a group case. And they were waiting for their group case
and meanwhile he met with his wife. They got a child. Then she moved back with him.
Until he comes here, he was living with his wife. And he was talking about his two
friends, the ones who accepted him first. One of them, he came to Denver but for some
reason he deceased. And the other one, he didn't get to come to America. They rejected
his case. I don't know why but he's in Germany.
[28:07]
HWE: How did you celebrate holidays when you were in the camp, or did you celebrate them at
all?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He said, it depends on your attitude and on your brain. If you got things you put it first,
food and other stuff. If you don't have anything, just buy vegetables because they are the
cheapest over there. Just, you have to do what you have to do.
HWE: And did you get together with other people to celebrate at all?
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HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[30:14]
AWI: Yeah, he said, we were refugees. Most of the time we lived close to each other, we hung
out together, we discussed about what we have to do because we don't want to live on the
welfare of the refugee camp. We want to earn money and improve our life. So during
holidays we always shared what we got. Some people have money. Some of them they
don't have. So if your neighbors or other people you know, if you know they don't have
anything and if you know they are bachelors or singles, you just invite them, “Hey, come
tomorrow. I'm going to make food or buy a sheep or a chicken, whatever you've got, or
meat.” If they are families, because families they want to spend the holiday together, you
just share what you've got with them. You tell them, “Hey, tomorrow is a holiday, I know
you guys don't have anything. Here's this thing and celebrate the holiday.” But you share
whatever you got. It can be meat. It can be food. It can be vegetables. Whatever.
HWE: Did you do anything else besides just eat together?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.]
[32:00]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [laughs]
AWI: He's saying, we just get together. We make coffee. If they've got a woman most of the
time the woman do coffee. If they don't have a woman, they just make it themselves. And
we discuss about their cultures because some people they were from the highlands, some
people from the western lowlands, some people from the eastern lowlands, that means
from the coast of the Red Sea. And we discuss about the way they live in their areas, how
they live, how they celebrate things, their culture and they just communicate and discuss
about cultures and things. And I asked him, do you guys dance, he said, how are we
going to dance? [Speaking to interviewee in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [laughs]
AWI: They don't have record or a CD player or something to play the song, so you don't dance
without the music.
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HWE: There were no musicians?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: There were musicians. They were funded by the IRC. Or because they were by the IRC.
But they perform only on the holidays assigned by the IRC. It can be a Women's Day, a
Refugees' Day, Eritrean Independence Day. But they don't celebrate all holidays.
HWE: What kinds of instruments did they play?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[34:03]
AWI: They played guitar, organ, but–
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya]
AWI: –we got our own equipment. We call it Krar. It's kind of guitar. But there was nobody
that could play saxophone. Because they had the instrument, but there is no person who can
play it.
HWE: And was the way you celebrated holidays in the camp, was that similar to how you
celebrated them in Eritrea?
HWEI: [Repeating in Tigrinya.]
AW: Yeah.
AWI: Yeah.
HWE: Did you get a sense at all of how Ethiopia felt about having all of the refugees in their
country?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
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[37:15]
AWI: Yeah, at first it was hard and they don't even like us, because they were even physically
attacking us, because there were some people who lost their teeth. There was a guy who
was hit by an ax. And they are refugees. The only thing they can prepare their food is by
firewood. And there were some people who went for the fire wood and the locals they
were beating them. They were telling them, “This is our wood, what the heck are you
doing with it?” They're all women. They got their wood and the locals, they just put fire
on the wood. They are not taking it. They just put fire on it, but after some time, the
government, the Ethiopian government. It was governing all the locals. It was telling
them, “Hey, these guys are refugees in our country. We have to help them. We are the
same people. We've got some political problems.” But some of them even, they were
born in Ethiopia but after the war broke, they were deported back to Eritrea because they were
born in Ethiopia, by blood they are Eritrean. They were deported. But the government
tried to discuss with the locals. And with the refugees too. So they start to get off it and
they were telling them they can get benefit because they accept the refugees, they can
have political benefit from it. And there was some refugees' organization from the
Netherlands. They came to the camp and they were teaching the refugees how to improve
their life, how to breed chickens, how to make beans because it was forest, and when they
were teaching the refugees, they were also teaching the locals together. So the locals
think, oh, so if we keep the refugees, we can get a lot of benefit. And they start trading
with them finally. Their difference doesn't exist and they start living together. But first
they were all hostile and they don't want them to be in that area.
[39:08]
HWE: How did you learn about the US refugee program?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[high pitched feedback noise 40:18]
[40:59]
AWI: At first, when he was living in Eritrea, he doesn't have any detailed knowledge of the
refugee case for him to come to America. His main reason to go to Ethiopia was to go to
Israel because he can cross through Sudan, but the border is so tough he cannot cross the
Sudan. But since he lives by the border of Ethiopia he just crossed to Ethiopia. His idea
was to go to Sudan, then Egypt, to Israel. But he was in Ethiopia and he was working on
something, he was calling someone, things like that. And there were a lot of people going
to Israel. To go to Israel from Ethiopia, you have to go to Sudan first, then cross all this
desert. You have to go to North of Egypt, cross the Sinai peninsula, then you go to Israel.
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And it costs a lot of money. And so you have to get money from your parents if they've
got some. Or you need someone or some relative in the United States or Europe because
parts of it take a lot of money. And there are a lot of smugglers in the border between
Israel and Egypt. But when these people who go to Israel, they get together over there and
they start petitioning to the refugee commission for the United Nations. They tell them,
“We're Eritreans. We've got a lot of political problems. We've got a lot of refugees in
Ethiopia. You guys are not doing anything.” Then after that it is the UNHCR. I think it is
a refugee commission. They collaborated with the United States and they started giving
them group case and things like that. And they started immigrating to America.
[42:43]
HWE: Can you tell me about how you got to the US?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [laughs]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: Yeah.
AWI: When he was in the refugee camp, when they are approving him to go to the United
States they have to wait for a flight because they send you when they have empty flights
coming back from Ethiopia. His first flight was on January 15th, 2013. And they cancelled
it. And the second flight was March 5, 2013. They also cancelled it.
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya]
[high pitched feedback noise 44:09]
AWI: Then there was another flight scheduled for him on April 4th, 2013. So from the refugee
camp he moved to Addis Ababa because the airport is in Addis Ababa, the capital of
Ethiopia.
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
AWI: And they cancelled it again.
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
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AWI: Then when you come to the United States you have to do medical check up for TB and
other vaccinations. It works only for six months. Because they cancelled his schedule
three times, his medical thing was expired. He has to retake it in Addis Ababa.
[high pitched feedback noise 44:52 to 44:56]
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
AWI: After he get his medical, after 44 days, on June 18th, they told him, “Hey there is a flight.
You're going to the United States on July 1st.” [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: Yeah.
AWI: Then he came to the United States on July the 1st. [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: So when he land, he went outside of the Bole airport where he take a flight to Egypt.
They got a transit. From Egypt they flew directly to New York. From New York they
took him by a bus to New Haven, Connecticut and he stayed there for five months.
[46:13]
HWE: Were there other refugees on the flight with you?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[high pitched feedback noise 46:26]
AWI: There were two Eritreans. There were Sudanese and Somalis too.
HWE: What was it like living in New Haven?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: At first, the air is cold in Connecticut. He was raised in the lowlands of Eritrea and it's too
hot. [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: Most of the time where he was raised, it was forty, forty-two, sometimes forty-five
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Afeworki Woldemichael Page
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degrees centigrade. [high pitched feedback noise begins 47:43] That means 100 degrees
Fahrenheit. So New Haven was so cold for him, so as soon as he arrived, when he got his
papers, he started working with a landscaping company his second month because he
came here to improve his life. [end noise 48:01] Then from his arrival after five months it
gets too cold because he came in July. In December it gets too cold, then he moved to
Idaho. [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[high pitched feedback noise 48:35 to 48:37]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: Mm-hmm.
AWI: So in Idaho he was working two jobs. One of them was growing with a potato company
and another one was with a cheese company.
HWE: And before you started work in the US, did you get any help from the government or any
religious organizations?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[50:00]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
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AW: Yeah.
AWI: They were taking food stamps from the workforce of that state, that means Connecticut.
AW: [Speaking Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: And five months they paid him his rent. I think it's some government organization, he
can't remember their name but something to do with immigration.
[high pitched feedback noise 50:24 to 50:28]
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: Immigration, immigrants.
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He's saying they are everywhere in every state. When you are a refugee they just help
you. They give you money and they help you. It was some kind of immigration services.
HWE: And is there any way that your first few months in the US could've [high pitched
feedback noise 51:04] been improved?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [noise ends 52:12]
[52:20]
AWI: Yeah. I don't know if they can do more, but they were giving us, they were paying for the
rent. And for the first two months, they give us 200 dollar for food stamp each month, but
after that they cut by 11 dollars so they were giving everyone in the whole United States
only 189. And when he moved to Idaho, they helped him with his rent for two months
and they're giving him food stamp for six months and after those they told him, “Hey
come to the work force for some interviews and we'll help you with additional food
stamps” but he told them, “Hey, I'm working and I can support myself. I don't need any
more food stamps” and [high pitched feedback noise 53:05] he didn't show up in the
interview.
HWE: And was– So you went from New Haven to Idaho and was it any warmer in Idaho than it
had been in New Haven? [laughs]
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HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [laughs]
[54:04]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He said, he was talking to his friend in Idaho. He told them, “Hey, this area's too cold. I
cannot do it here.” His friend told him, “Okay, it's cold here but let's try it over here.
Come over here.” And he came to Idaho. When he was coming there was a lot of snow
coming down. And it was even cold even in the airport, [end noise 55:05] so he told the
security, “Hey, I'm staying inside. I'm not leaving until my friends come back, show up.”
Because his friends, [high pitched feedback noise at 55:09] they were not in the airport at
the time he was landing. So he waited inside the airport to wait for his ride but it was too
cold even in the airport. Then he started work then. Utah and Idaho, they are kind of the
same in weather but they are different than Connecticut. Connecticut is close to Canada
and close to the sea, the ocean, and it is colder than Idaho.
BDA: [to HWE] So what do you think? You came from the west coast– east coast. [laughs]
HWE: Me? About the weather?
BDA: Oh sorry. The interview is about him not about you. [laughs]
HWE: [laughs]
AW: [laughs]
HWE: How long have you lived in Cache Valley?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
[56:04]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He's going on his tenth month. Last month, on the 13th , it was his ninth month.
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HWE: And did you go straight here from Idaho?
HWEI: [Repeating the question in Tigrinya.]
AW: Yeah.
AWI: Yeah.
HWE: And why did you decide to come here after Idaho?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: Yeah, in Idaho he was working two jobs, almost 20 hours a day. He was sleeping just
three hours a day. And they were paying him only nine dollars per hour. So he was asking
friends for a better job with better payment. So came here. They work only between 9 to
10 hours in Hyram. And he gets paid 13.75 an hour. The job is hard, but I got time to rest.
That's why he moved to Logan.
[58:22]
HWE: And you work at JBS?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: Yeah.
HWE: Okay. What has it been like living in Logan?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He said, I like Logan. It's safe place. I don't have to worry about my security. And I work.
I support my relatives. I support my children and his wife. He's processing their visa. I
hope they will come soon. And most of the time when you move from one state to
another state you have to think about yourself and discuss with yourself, why are you
moving? So I told Logan had a better lifestyle, lifestyle than there was in Idaho, better
pay. So, so far, I cannot complain. Logan is a good place and I hope I will improve my
life better than I have now.
[60:31]
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HWE: Do you feel included in the community here?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: Yeah. Until now, I didn't encounter anything bad, not only in Logan but in the whole
United States. Sometimes, due to the language barrier, there might be some conflicts but
I'm sure it's because we don't speak English and they don't speak Tigrinya. But if I can
speak English and explain my culture and my needs, I hope I feel included.
HWE: What do you think could be done to make you feel more at home here?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
End part 1 of 2: 62:06
Begin part 2 of 2:
[00:01] [high pitched feedback noise from beginning to end]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He said, I think he needs to do more to study English and if he studied English, if he can
communicate with the locals, he will tell them how we live our [??] things like that. And
he learns the culture of the locals if they can communicate. If he can communicate with
the other people, just respect each other and live including each other, life will be easier.
But if we don't communicate with them, if we don't know the language, it will be hard.
But the only thing we have to do is learn English and explain ourselves.
HWE: Okay. How is your home here different than the one you had in Eritrea.
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [laughs]
AWI: He was living in a house but now he's living in an apartment.
HWE: [laughs]
AW: [laughs]
HWEI: [Speaks in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
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AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.] [laughs]
[02:20]
AWI: There is a lot of difference. The utensils here and back home are different. Back home we
use firewood to cook our food and other stuff, but here we use gas stoves. And for ready
to eat things we use a microwave here, but over there, nobody knows what a microwave
is.
HWE: Can you tell me about your experiences with your landlord?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: We don't even know who's owner of this apartment. They heard lives in Texas, and some
other company, they lease all the apartments. They got a drop box downstairs. Every
month, they write the money order and they just drop it. And they don't know who takes
the money or who owns these apartments.
[03:58]
HWE: So what happens when you have a problem like if your fridge breaks or something goes
wrong?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: So all of the refrigerators, they have a contact number, so if something goes wrong, you
just call that contact number and they deal with it.
HWE: Oh, okay.
HWEI: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: But so far they don't have any problems so they never use that number.
HWE: Okay. What would you like people in Logan to know about you and other Eritreans here?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
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AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He says, here in Logan, those who can speak English, they are so few. But I hope we can
learn English and discuss with the Logan community how they go, their political system,
the way they live, their culture, and more else. And I hope we can communicate with
them. But now there are only a few people who can talk to them.
[06:14]
HWE: If you could, would you go back to your home country?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He cannot go.
HWE: But if you were able to, would you want to?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: I don't think we are going back home but if the government or the system is changed over
there, if they can allow all the refugees to come back to Eritrea, if he becomes a citizen, I
might go for a visit, but I don't think I will go back.
HWE: What are you most proud of?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
[08:00]
AWI: I'm happy because I'm healthy and I can work and support myself and my families. And,
second, although I know only few English, I am proud I can– I will try to make friends
and communicate with other people.
HWE: What are your dreams for the future?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
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AWI: This time I cannot tell you about my dreams because I am working on bringing my
family, my wife and children, so when she comes here, we will discuss about our future
dreams with my family, my wife and my children. And after, if she comes here, we'll
both dream together, but if I dream something now and she dreams another dream, it'll be two
dreams and one family. So when she shows up here, we can discuss about myself, about
our future. We will buy a house and we'll improve our future life and future life of our
children.
HWE: Okay. I think that's all. Do you guys have anything you want to ask?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
[09:53]
AW: Okay. [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: He said, I appreciate you on behalf of myself and the other people in Logan or Utah.
Because you guys are working to get our culture and to take it to the people of Logan and
other people. So I appreciate what you guys are doing.
HWE: Thank you.
AW: You're welcome.
HWE: I hope we'll be able to do that correctly. Do you have anything else that you want to add?
HWEI: [Repeating question in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
AWI: I don't have any other things to add, but I hope in our, in my future interview, things like
this or other stuff, I hope I will do it myself without a translator. I think I want to talk to
any person, man, woman, it doesn't matter, but I just want to do it myself without a
translator.
HWE: Okay. So, thanks for agreeing to meet with us. And we have a release form to sign that
has to do with putting the interview and the photos in the archives being used for an
online presentation.
HWEI: [Repeating statement in Tigrinya.]
[12:07]
AW: Okay.
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BDA: Does he need to write in English, or?
HWE: No, you can write in whatever language you want.
HWEI: [Repeating statement in Tigrinya.]
AW: [Responding in Tigrinya.]
BDA: [Speaking in Tigrinya to interviewee.]
AW: [Speaking in Tigrinya.]
End part 2 of 2: [12:29]]]> Afeworki Woldemichael, 1979-;]]> Williams, Heidi, 1989-;]]> Berhane Debesai Abraha, 1980-;]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Warner-Evans, Hilary, 1994;]]> Warner-Evans, Hilary, 1994-;]]> transcripts;]]> application/pdf;]]> 162008 Bytes]]> tir; eng;]]> Text;]]> Western Lowland Eritrea; Ethiopia; Egypt; New York, NY; New Haven, CT; Idaho;]]> Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Weber County;]]> Agren, Ellen]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Weber County (Utah);]]> 1930-1939; 20th century;]]> Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Weber County;]]> Agren, Ellen;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Weber County (Utah);]]> 1920-1929; 20th century;]]> Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Weber County;]]> Agren, Ellen;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Weber County (Utah);]]> 1920-1929; 20th century;]]> Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Weber County; Larkins, C.F.--Pictorial works]]> Agren, Ellen;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Weber County (Utah);]]> 1920-1929; 20th century;]]> Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Weber County;]]> Agren, Ellen;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Weber County (Utah);]]> 1920-1929; 20th century;]]> Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Weber County;]]> Agren, Ellen;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Weber County (Utah);]]> 1920-1929; 20th century;]]> Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Weber County;]]> Agren, Ellen;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Weber County (Utah);]]> 1920-1929; 20th century;]]> Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Weber County;]]> Agren, Ellen;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Weber County (Utah);]]> 1920-1929; 20th century;]]> Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Weber County;]]> Agren, Ellen;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Weber County (Utah);]]> 1920-1929; 20th century;]]> Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Weber County;]]> Agren, Ellen;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Weber County (Utah);]]> 1920-1929; 20th century;]]> Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Weber County; Larkins, C.F.--Pictorial works;]]> Home economics; Extension Work; Publications; Reports; Livestock; Community; Girls' Clubs; Weber County;]]> Agren, Ellen;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Weber County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5784440;]]> 20th century; 1920-1929;]]> Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Weber County; Larkins, C.F.--Pictorial works;]]> Home economics; Extension Work; Publications; Reports; Livestock; Community; Girls' Clubs; Weber County;]]> Agren, Ellen;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Weber County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5784440;]]> 20th century; 1920-1929;]]> Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Weber County;]]> Home economics; Extension Work; Publications; Reports; Livestock; Community; Girls' Clubs; Weber County;]]> Agren, Ellen;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Weber County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5784440;]]> 20th century; 1920-1929;]]> Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Weber County;]]> Home economics; Extension Work; Publications; Reports; Livestock; Community; Girls' Clubs; Weber County;]]> Agren, Ellen;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Weber County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5784440;]]> 20th century; 1920-1929;]]> Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Weber County;]]> Home economics; Extension Work; Publications; Reports; Livestock; Community; Girls' Clubs; Weber County;]]> Agren, Ellen;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Weber County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5784440;]]> 20th century; 1920-1929;]]> Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Weber County;]]> Home economics; Extension Work; Publications; Reports; Livestock; Community; Girls' Clubs; Weber County;]]> Agren, Ellen;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Weber County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5784440;]]> 20th century; 1920-1929;]]> Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Weber County;]]> Home economics; Extension Work; Publications; Reports; Livestock; Community; Girls' Clubs; Weber County;]]> Agren, Ellen;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Weber County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5784440;]]> 20th century; 1920-1929;]]> Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Weber County;]]> Home economics; Extension Work; Publications; Reports; Livestock; Community; Girls' Clubs; Weber County;]]> Agren, Ellen;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Weber County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5784440;]]> 20th century; 1920-1929;]]> Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Weber County;]]> Home economics; Extension Work; Publications; Reports; Livestock; Community; Girls' Clubs;]]> Agren, Ellen;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Weber County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5784440;]]> 20th century; 1920-1929;]]> Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Weber County;]]> Home economics; Extension Work; Publications; Reports; Livestock; Community; Girls' Clubs;]]> Agren, Ellen;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Weber County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5784440;]]> 20th century; 1920-1929;]]> Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Weber County;]]> Home economics; Extension Work; Publications; Reports; Livestock; Community; Girls' Clubs; Weber County;]]> Agren, Ellen;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Weber County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5784440;]]> 20th century; 1920-1929;]]> Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Weber County;]]> Home economics; Extension Work; Publications; Reports; Livestock; Community; Girls' Clubs; Weber County;]]> Agren, Ellen;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Weber County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5784440;]]> 20th century; 1930-1939;]]> Agricultural extension work--Publications--Utah--Davis County; Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Davis County; Clippings (Books, newspapers, etc.);]]> Agren, Ellen; Adams, Alden S.; Nichols, DeLore;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Davis County (Utah);]]> 1940-1949; 20th century;]]> Agricultural extension work--Publications--Utah--Davis County; Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Davis County; Clippings (Books, newspapers, etc.);]]> Extension work; Publications; Cache County; Agriculture; Community; Seeds; Weed control;]]> Agren, Ellen; Adams, Alden S.; Nichols, DeLore;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Davis County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5773664;]]> 20th century; 1940-1949;]]> Agricultural extension work--Publications--Utah--Davis County; Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Davis County; Clippings (Books, newspapers, etc.);]]> Agren, Ellen; Nichols, DeLore;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Davis County (Utah);]]> 1940-1949; 20th century;]]> Agricultural extension work--Publications--Utah--Davis County; Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Davis County; Clippings (Books, newspapers, etc.);]]> Agren, Ellen; Nichols, DeLore;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Davis County (Utah);]]> 1940-1949; 20th century;]]> Agricultural extension work--Publications--Utah--Davis County; Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Davis County; Clippings (Books, newspapers, etc.);]]> Agren, Ellen; Nichols, DeLore;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Davis County (Utah);]]> 1940-1949; 20th century;]]> Agricultural extension work--Publications--Utah--Davis County; Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Davis County; Clippings (Books, newspapers, etc.);]]> Extension work; Publications; Davis County; Agriculture; Community; Seeds; Weed control;]]> Agren, Ellen; Nichols, DeLore;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Davis County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5773664;]]> 20th century; 1940-1949;]]> Agricultural extension work--Publications--Utah--Davis County; Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Davis County; Clippings (Books, newspapers, etc.);]]> Extension work; Publications; Davis County; Agriculture; Community; Seeds; Weed control; Certifications;]]> Agren, Ellen; Nichols, DeLore;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Davis County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5773664;]]> 20th century; 1940-1949;]]> Agricultural extension work--Publications--Utah--Davis County; Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Davis County; Clippings (Books, newspapers, etc.);]]> Extension work; Publications; Davis County; Agriculture; Community; Seeds; Weed control; Certifications;]]> Agren, Ellen; Nichols, DeLore;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Davis County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5773664;]]> 20th century; 1940-1949;]]> Agricultural extension work--Publications--Utah--Davis County; Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Davis County; Clippings (Books, newspapers, etc.);]]> Agren, Ellen; Nichols, DeLore; Bingham, Dean R.;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Davis County (Utah);]]> 1940-1949; 20th century;]]> Agricultural extension work--Publications--Utah--Davis County; Home economics extension work--Publications--Utah--Davis County; Clippings (Books, newspapers, etc.);]]> Extension work; Home economics; Clippings; Davis County, Agriculture; Publications;]]> Agren, Ellen; Nichols, DeLore; Bingham, Dean R.;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Davis County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5773664;]]> 20th century; 1940-1949;]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho)--United States;]]> Aldous, Alfred E.]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> SCAMSS0491Bx001Fd15.pdf]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho); Utah; Idaho; United States; Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest;]]> 20th century; 1910-1919;]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho)--United States;]]> Anderson, R. C.]]> Bryam, Robert]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> SCAMSS0491Bx001Fd26-004.pdf]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho); Utah; Idaho; United States; Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest;]]> 20th century; 1940-1949;]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho)--United States;]]> Anderson, R. C.]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> SCAMSS0491Bx001Fd28-001.pdf]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho); Utah; Idaho; United States; Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest;]]> 20th century; 1940-1949;]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho)--United States;]]> Anderson, R. C.]]> Sorensen, William]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> SCAMSS0491Bx001Fd26-010.pdf]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho); Utah; Idaho; United States; Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest;]]> 20th century; 1940-1949;]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho)--United States;]]> Anderson, R. C.]]> Peterson, Henry]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> SCAMSS0491Bx001Fd26-007.pdf]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho); Utah; Idaho; United States; Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest;]]> 20th century; 1940-1949;]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho)--United States;]]> Anderson, R. C.]]> Marriott, M. Stewart]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> SCAMSS0491Bx001Fd26-001.pdf]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho); Utah; Idaho; United States; Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest;]]> 20th century; 1940-1949;]]> Agricultural extension work--Publications; Egg trade--Utah; Farm produce--Marketing--Utah; Utah State Agricultural College--Publications; Cooperative marketing of farm produce--Utah;]]> Extension work; Agriculture; Publications; Eggs; Farms; Utah State Agricultural College; Cooperatives;]]> Anderson, Roice H.;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5549030 ;]]> 20th century; 1950-1959;]]> Becker Brewing and Malting Company; Anheuser-Busch Brewing Association; Budweiser;]]> Anheuser-Busch Brewing Association;]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> application/pdf;]]> 2941226 Bytes]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Ogden, Utah]]> Becker Brewing and Malting Company; Anheuser-Busch Brewing Association; Business;]]> E XC LUS IVELY.
Becker Brewi ng Be }.. 1 : a 1 t i rg Co.
Ogden Utah .
Ge nt 1 emen : -
ST. LOUIS. MO.U.S:A .
December 4th 1895
Your faro r of th e 25 t h u lt . add r es s ed to Mr. Geo. Kru.g
has been r eferred t o us, and we no te th at you have ass '.Jmed Mr .
Wecker' s busi ness, an d tl esire to c o nt i nue t he sale o f our beer at
Og de n.
We are als 0 in rec ei pt o f a l etter ack nowlecigi ng the co rr-e
c tness of :Mr . Wecker's ind e btedness, amounti ng to '$3425.06, which
you intend to assu me, bu t as a l a r e e par t o f th i s ind ebtedness has
be en past due, we thi nk S OIre arrar:gene nt s hould be mad e to liqui date
i t wi thi n a reas 0 nable ti me .
We propos e th at y ou pay $ 1000 cas h, a n d t he talance in
monthly p@J rnents of $ 500 every month hereafter, s o t hat the last pay-ment
5 months he nce be $425.06, a..!'ld we suppose this would be accep-table
to y ou, a s it gives you a mp le time t o realize on the assets
turne d over by Mr. Wec k er. Wi 11 y ou p lease advise us.
Regarding prices and terIIB for futu re s hi pments, we under-starn
from Mr . Krue ttlat t he same p rices Will govern future shipments
Becke r Brewi m: & },1alt i re Co. 2 .
as t hos e enjoyed by 11!1r. Wecker, and t hat e ach shipment i s t o be
drawn f o r at 30 day s, which no dou b t will be ent ire ly satis facto -ry
t o you.
We f eel co nfi de nt that you wi 11 be able not o nly t o mai n­t
Ed.. n , but i nc teas e t he sal e 0 f cur beer " and VI e ''Ii 11 be p leas ed t o
be favored so on wi th an or de r.
You TS tru 1'1,]]> Anheuser-Busch Brewing Association;]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> application/pdf;]]> 888512 Bytes]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Ogden, Utah; St. Louis, Missouri]]> Legends;]]> legend-tripping;]]> and
HECATE IN LOGAN CANYON: ORIGIN, BELIEF, AND CONTEMPORARY ORAL
TRADITION
by
Anna-Maria Sna:bjornsd6ttir Arnlj6ts
Two essays submitted in partial fulfillment of the requirements for the degree
Approved:
Jeannie Thomas
Committee Member
of
MASTER OF ARTS
In
American Studies
(Plan B)
Barre Toelken
Major Professor
UTAH STATE UNIVERSITY
Logan, Utah
2000
Randy Williams
Committee Member
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Legend-Tripping at St. Anne's Retreat
What is now referred to as St. Anne's Retreat was initially a summer home eight
miles up Logan Canyon, east of Logan, Utah. It was built in the 1930s by the Boyd
Hatch family from New York, and Mrs. Hortense OdIum. The property was donated in
the 1950s to the Roman Catholic Diocese of Salt Lake City, and it was used occasionally
as a retreat and a vacation place for Sisters of the Holy Cross. Because it was not in
continuous use, there was ample opportunity for vandals to visit, even on nights when the
sisters were present. This prompted the nuns to get watch dogs to alert them to the
presence of intruders. The sisters felt unsafe with the increase of the sometimes
intoxicated young trespassers and vandals, and stopped coming to the retreat. In 1992,
Mark Epstein, together with some other investors, bought the property with plans of
turning it into vacation homes (Herald Journal, October 15, 1997. Pg. 16). What these
investors may not have anticipated was the long standing cultural gap between local
Mormons and Catholics, and how fear, belief, prejudice, and a generally accepted folk
tradition of legend-tripping would interfere with their hopes of vacationing peacefully in
the beautiful mountains of Logan Canyon.
Legend-tripping is a term that Linda Degh, William Ellis, and others use in
describing the practice of visiting the sites of supernatural legends. In a collection of
essays called "Legend-Trips and Satanism: Adolescents' Ostensive Tradition as 'Cult'
Activity, " Ellis quotes Kenneth Thigpen who describes legend tripping in three parts
consisting of "1) initiation into the story; 2) performing the acts that 'cause the
fulfillment of the legend'; and 3) retrospective discussion of what participants believed
happened, which then feeds back into the core story into which newcomers were
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initiated" (Ellis 1991 :280). The legends surrounding St. Anne's have provided a thrill to
local adolescents for generations as is manifested by the number of people of all
generations who claim to have taken part in legend tripping at St. Anne's.
St. Anne's retreat and the legends associated with it achieved national media
attention when over 30 high school students seeking to experience the "trip" of this
legendary place, were caught and fell into the hands of vigilante security guards. The
students were captured by three men, who were armed with shotguns; they were then
roped around the neck, handcuffed, and forced to kneel in an empty swimming pool
(Herald Journal, October 12, 1997, pg. 1). The legend-tripping youths embarked on a
"trip" more exciting than they had anticipated as some were allegedly verbally
threatened, physically abused, and sexually assaulted while awaiting the arrival of the
local police. What followed this incident was a public uproar against the watchmen's use
of force against the trespassers.
This paper will look at the circumstances around this event and how age
differences, religious folklore, and other cultural constructions play important roles in the
maintenance of a vivid local legend cluster. The paper will further analyze versions of
the St. Anne legend currently circulating among local high school students. I ultimately
hope to illustrate how the nature of folklore is manifested by incorporating the vigilante
incident into the legend cluster ofSt. Anne's retreat, evident in some ofthe recent
versions collected from seniors at a Logan High School.
The angry response of parents whose children were manhandled at the Retreat
while legend-tripping on Halloween in 1997 was based on their notion that teenage trips
to St. Anne's were so common that they constituted an understandable, coherent
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tradition, the rationale of which was more important than the relatively trivial matter of
trespass. In other words, local concepts of justice are heavily influenced here-as
elsewhere in the world-by local traditions. And if the tradition and its intemallogic are
that important, of course it tacitly affirms the local attitudes on differences in religion.
A different example of local concepts of justice being influenced by tradition may
be the blood libel case involving a child: Andrew ofRinn at Judenstein, a town near
Innsbruck, Austria is said in legend to have died by ritual murder at the hands of a Jew.
Alan Dundes relates that Eli Wiesenthal, a Nazi-hunter, "voices his dismay at seeing full
cars and busloads of school children making annual pilgrimages to Rinn under the
tutelage of their religious instructors to see the ritual murder lie depicted as a historical
event ... [t]his is depicted by three figures made of wood or wax in a menacing pose
with knives in hand surrounding a stone upon which was stretched out a supplicating
infant garbed in white" (Dundes, 342). In spite of great effort to stop pilgrimages to this
blood libel legend site, including orders from Pope John Paul XXli to remove certain
statues-the legend is treated as historical fact and thus the local concepts of justice in
Rinn, and the power of their folk belief and tradition carry on unchanged. The parallel
seen between the St. Anne's legends and the blood libel legends is clearly that local belief
and tradition in both cases justify a long standing custom--one that penetrates basic
principles and issues of a local population. For the St. Anne's legend this means legend­tripping
to experience the legend by ostension; and in the case of Andrew ofRinn at
Judenstein, pilgrimages to the site that commemorates the child murdered there.
Recollections from older locals of the Cache Valley region, recalling their visit to
the "Nunnery," suggest a general consent to this behavior of legend-tripping associated
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with the belief and its tradition and suggests that this ritual functions as a rite of passage
for local individuals. This is evident from older generations of legend-trippers that
established the tradition of visiting St. Anne's; and thus viewed as a custom that one
would expect most locals to have participated in. The youths apprehended in Logan
Canyon on Halloween 1997 who expected fulfillment of the St. Anne legend, really did
get a thrill-but not of the sort they expected. Instead of red-eyed Dobermans, the
haunting sound of murdered babies crying out, Witch Hekate in the shape of a cloud
moving down the mountain, the car not starting, boulders falling down the mountain
upon curious visitors, blood in the swimming pool, (representing the death that the pool is
so much associated with), these trippers were ambushed in the night by armed men with
shotguns and held hostage for two hours.
Another story involving St. Anne's Retreat reflects an incident that again deals
with local traditions confronting an aggregate concept of justice. Diane Browning, a
former journalist for the local newspaper, The Herald Journal, wrote an article in 1986,
telling of the St. Anne's Retreat legends as a ghost story for Halloween. She related the
history of the article to me in a phone conversation (1997). After a co-worker told her
one of the St. Anne's legends, they decided it would be a fun piece to write for
Halloween (1986). However, the article instead created an emotional response from the
Logan Catholic community, who took the article as an intentional provocation. Diane
described verbally abusive anonymous phone calls and irate letters to the editor in The
Herald Journal. Also outraged by her article was the incumbent priest, who spent two
consecutive Sundays attacking the author from the pulpit, promoting a charged
atmosphere.
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Legend versions that Browning discussed in her article include: nuns raped and
murdered at the retreat, a nun who had given birth to a child while at St. Anne's,
drowning the baby in the swimming pool, and a nun coming out of the woods
accompanied by two white Doberman Pinschers with red eyes. Browning ended the
article by saying: "A note to the adventuresome: St. Anne's is located on private property
and is patrolled regularly by a night watchman" (Herald Journal, October 26, 1986). This
statement seems somewhat ironic-since eleven years later-the community becomes
witness to an incident on this property that specifically deals with vigilante actions by the
night watchmen.
Browning's newspaper article and the trespassing incident in 1997
involving St. Anne's, illustrate the magnificent potential of a legend, and the powerful
role that it plays in local folklore. This is further illustrated by the resiliency of the
legend as it persists in its navigation through time, through a periodic resurgence, giving
rise to otherwise dormant tensions between the Mormon majority and the Catholic
minority in Logan.
In the Fife Folklore Archives at Utah State University are some 50 legend
versions of the St. Anne's Retreat, and an additional 25 of the related Hecate legend
version, collected by students through the years. Several examples of these follow here
to facilitate an understanding the concepts and ideas involved in this discussion. The
current oral legend tradition appears to contain a basic version: example 1-8; and a
trespassing version that follows as trespass versions 1-4. [stories are written verbatim].
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1. The Old Nun
I once heard of some kids from Hyrum that went up to the old Catholic
Nunnery in Logan Canyon. There was three boys and three girls. It was
really late at night when they went, the guy had wanted to really scare their
girlfriends. They got out of their car, walked down the path towards the
Nunnery. Along the way was a couple of ponds. When they walked past the
ponds little hands reached up and grabbed all of them around the ankles.
They were all so scared that they took off running back to the car. Some of
the guys started asking around as to why this happened. An old Priest that
lives here in the valley told them that when there were people from the church
living there, some of the Nuns became pregnant by the Priests. The Nuns
would carry the baby to full term, and then to save the Church from
embarrassment, they would drown their babies in the ponds. When strangers
enter the property and walk by the ponds the babies' spirits will grab at them;
they try and pull themselves out of the water to keep from drowning (Fife
Folklore Archives, L2.1.12.1.27).
2. Freezing Nuns
St. Anne's was a place where nuns could go on a vacation, usually in the
summer or winter. One winter a long time ago, some nuns went up there to
stay. It was a very severe winter with lots of snow so a man had to bring
their supplies to them every week. He would take their fuel and food to
them because it was the only way they could get it. One week the man
couldn't get his wagon through, and he had to wait about two weeks before
he could go up there again. He finally made it up to the retreat, and he
found all the nuns had starved and frozen to death. He noticed that their
bodies had been chewed by dogs. He was very worried about this, and was
just leaving when he saw one of the nuns, whose name was Hekeda. She
began chasing him with her two dogs. He got away and told the towns
people what had happened. Hekeda still haunts the retreat with her dogs,
and you can see her chasing you in your rearview mirror as you are leaving.
It is believed she is of the devil (Fife Folklore Archives, ColI. 8. USU. 84-
050. Item 5).
3. St. Anne's Retreat
St. Anne's Retreat was originally established up Logan Canyon for Cache
Valley's Catholic nuns who needed to "get away" from things for awhile.
One nun got herself in trouble and as time passed her problem became more
noticeable. He[r] superiors knew that something needed to be done-she
couldn't walk the streets in her condition, so she was sent to the St. Anne's
for the duration of her pregnancy. The Mother Superior at St. Anne's talked
this nun into putting up the baby for adoption when it was born, because she
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thought this sort of thing was horrible. If the nun would agree to do as the
Mother Superior said, the Mother Superior would help her. If not, then she
could fend for herself. Well, as time went by and this nun spent her time
reading, thinking, swimming in the pool, and walking around the retreat and
in the nearby woods, she began to think of this child and knew she could
never give it up. She decided to leave the order and raise her baby. When
the baby was born she told her decision to the Mother Superior. The Mother
Superior did not agree and felt that she had to end this situation. One day
when this nun was sleeping, the Mother Superior took the baby and drowned
him in the swimming pool. The nun took it very hard, but couldn't believe
the Mother Superior would actually do this. She thought the Mother
Superior had taken the baby and given him to a family, or was hiding him
on the retreat somewhere. As she was recovering, she would take walks
around the retreat to see if she could find her baby. As she walked by the
pool one day, the Mother Superior pushed her in and she drowned. The
Mother Superior thought she had rectified the problem, and now could live
with herself after taking care of this nun. About three weeks later another
nun was sent to St. Anne's to rest and relax for a couple of weeks. One day
as she was walking past the swimming pool she saw a nun floating face
down in the pool. She screamed, and the Mother Superior came to see what
the problem was. The Mother Superior tried to grab at the nun in the pool,
but the nun disappeared. The second nun wanted to know what had
happened, but the Mother Superior would not say anything. The second nun
called the Father and told him to come up to the St. Anne's because there
was something wrong. the Father came and got to the bottom of what had
happened and soon after, the Mother Superior was taken from St. Anne's.
Shortly after this happened, the Catholic church sold St. Anne's Retreat. St.
Anne's is still used as a get away place for various groups and there have
been reports that the one nun is still looking for her baby. Some have seen
her walking around the retreat, and some have seen her floating in the pool.
While there are no reports of anyone talking to this nun, there are plenty of
reports of people who have seen her, so as you go camping in this part of
Logan Canyon, beware of the nun (Fife Folklore Archives, L2.1.12.1.34).
4. Saint-Ann-Retreat
Saint-Ann was a nunery a long time ago. As Catholic, nuns are not suppose
to have sex or any relationship with male. However, some nuns up at Saint­Ann
had broke the rule and got pregnant. When babies were born, the nuns
killed the babies by drowning them in a pool in the back of Sain-Ann. Some
of the nuns felt guilty and killed themselves also. Now, the nuns sometimes
appear back to visit the place. There is a watchman with two dobermans
and a gun to keep the public out (Fife Folklore Archives, L2.1.12.1.14).
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5. Hekeda and Her Dogs
All the nuns and mother superior lived at St. Anne's. One of the nun's name
was Hekeda, and she took care of seven afghan hounds. In the early 1920' s a
guy went up there and killed and raped them all. All of the bodies were
found except Hekeda's and the dog's. Every time someone goes up to St.
Anne's to fix it up, they always hear dogs barking, and then see a lantern on
the ountain. You can see the figure of a woman walking her dogs up there at
night. If you yell the name Hekeda three times, a blue fog will cover your
car, and you won't be able to come down out of the canyon (Fife Folklore
Archives, ColI. 8. USU. 84-050. Item 6).
6. The Lynching Mob
This actually happened sometime in the early sixties. St. Anne's was a
vacation area, and there were about twelve or thirteen nuns up there when
one of them went bezerk. She just went bonkers. She had been training
these four Black Labs, which she had gotten from Hekeda, to kill. She kept
them in a woodshed on the mountainside, and one night she let the dogs
loose. She got a lantern and a hatchet, and she and her dogs slaughtered all
of the nuns. Time passed and nothing was discovered until someone made a
delivery to the retreat. The person who found the dead nuns went back to
Logan and got a bunch of people together. This mob of people went up to St.
Anne's, and they found the crazy nun, and they decided to hang her. They
gave her the chance to speak her last words, and she said, "I will forever
haunt this place." She still haunts St. Anne's today (Fife Folklore Archives,
ColI. 8. USU. 84-050. Item 8).
7. Saint Anne's Retreat
A long time ago there used to be a nunnery at Saint Anne's. One of the
nuns got pregnant by a young priest. She hid the fact that she was
pregnant for a long time. When she had the baby she was told she had to
leave the nunnery. She was grieved at what had happened and went out
and drowned her baby in the swimming pool, then hung herself. Her
spirit haunts the place in the form of a dog. Sometimes people can hear
dogs howling at Saint Anne's. Nobody has ever seen the dogs (Fife
Folklore Archives, L2.1.12.1.37).
8. Heckada
If you go up Logan Canyon to 3rd dam and cross the bridge into the
Spring Hollow area or go to the Quarry up Providence Canyon, you can
summon the Devil's wife, her name is Heckada. My friend's brother's
girlfriend's brother had a friend that did this very thing. He and a date
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went up to the Spring Hollow area, for some romancing. After being
turned down he got out of the car and yelled the phrase "Heckada, come
get me" this was the saying that you needed to say to get Heckada to
appear. After saying it a few times he returned to the car. His date was
scared, which was his main intention for doing the little prank, or so he
thought. After a few minutes of sitting there they began to hear dogs
barking, they looked up and saw a green glowing chariot pulled by six
wolves, and a mistress with long flowing hair at the reins. At about the
same instance the doors locked, the boy and date was pretty scared by
this time so the boy tried to get the car started but it seemed like the
battery was dead, nothing would start or no lights would come on. By
this time the wolves were on the hood of the car clawing at it and
grow ling. The mistress stared into the boy's eyes and said "I have come
for you." The boy freaked out and didn't know what to do, the girl was
screaming and crying. Then the boy remembered to say "In the name of
Jesus Christ I command you to leave," at the very instance of saying
that, the mistress and her wolves disappeared. The boy then started the
car and returned to Logan. Upon returning to his date's house they
looked at the hood and saw scratches that the wolves left (Fife Folklore
Archives, L2.3.1.15.9).
These legends may function to express curiosity, suspicion and even fear of a
minority religion by a local majority. They may also function as a means of
illustrating the idea that outside religions are too strange for local adolescents to take
seriously by creating a sense of fear and skepticism about their behavior. Such stories
allow for hostility toward another group to be expressed in narrative dramas rather
than the form of physical harm. Nonetheless, it is clear that there is a considerable
emotional load in these stories as well, and it is important for us to wonder why. It
will become increasingly clear through these legend examples and discussion
throughout this paper of different themes and issues that surface, and the function that
this oral tradition serves.
The trespass legend versions that circulate today tell about the horrors occurring
during the incident on Halloween of 1997. Examples 1-4 follow:
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Trespass Story: 1
My father has told me stories of when he would visit there, and my
friend did some research on it last summer. I've heard about the kids
that went up there and the caretaker tied them up in the pool and
harassed them [my emphasis]. My father told me about stories where he
would go up there and play pranks on his dates. Him and his friends
would dress up like ghosts and act out scenes with real rifles and blanks.
I have heard something about somebody dying in the pool, and people
making sacrifice up there [merger of traditional story and trespass
version of 1997] (Logan High survey).
Trespass Story: 2
I heard that there were some high school students were at the nunery and
they got kidnapped [my emphasis] and tied up and I heard they were
breaking into [my emphasis] the nunery (Logan High survey).
Trespass Story: 3
I probably only know rumors from people around me at my school. I
don't know any facts about it. I have heard that there is a nunery up the
canyon where little kids were murdered. Then I heard that kids from my
school and others went up there and got caught by cops. My friend has
been there, and she said it was really scary [a mixture of the basic story
and trespass version of 1997] (Logan High survey).
Trespass Story: 4
The only thing that I have heard about it was about the teens who
where trying to break in and they got harassed [my emphasis] [1997
events] (Logan High survey).
There are several themes that can be observed in various versions of these legends
that address the Mormon-Catholic tensions. The story of "Witch Hekate," identified
with the Mother Superior, and her red-eyed Dobermans, symbolize the evil connotation
that the locals have associated with the Catholic church. The ancient belief of dogs as a
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symbol of evil is seen in this legend by .the presence of Witch Hekate's Dobermans­further
attempting to associate the nuns as evil (Barre Toelken, personal communication).
Also with origins in ancient belief, is the theme of sexuality and pregnancy at St.
Anne' s- which comes from the old notion that nuns and priests secretly engaged in
sexual encounters (Barre Toelken, personal communication). In the case of the legend,
the horror of disposing of these unwanted pregnancies follows.
The congruency between the dramatic images of the legends and local western
and Mormon values suggests still another level of meaning for these narratives.
Teenagers from a patriarchal society go away from town to experience the thrill of danger
in a female-dominated place; teenagers who are dating but are exhorted to refrain from
sex until after marriage go there to be thrilled by legends of women who are prohibited
from having sex, and who don't get married, but who have illegitimate babies anyway;
espousing religion and abhorring murder, they visit places where religious people are said
to have been murdered.
To understand the emotional load and the religious dimension in these legends is
to understand local belief and perception of the world, including the presence of the
Catholic Retreat established some fifty years ago Logan Canyon. Fundamental attitudes
of Mormons towards Catholics is an essential component of the religious dimension, but
what appears prominent through the legends is gender-and the struggle to maintain, and
confirm the male role in this religious culture. The legends serve as faith promoting
events of not only the male establishing his role as dominant, but also to verify that the
Mormon church is superior and one that will prevail over the other.
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Mormon attitudes towards Catholics is well documented. Thomas quotes the
following from personal communication with William A. Wilson, a Mormon scholar:
Mormons see Catholics as the principal apostate church. Protestant
churches have at least tried to draw closer to the original church in their
reform movements, but Catholics have steadfastly persisted in their error, in
their apostasy, and are therefore easily connected with evil. Bruce
McConkie called the Catholic Church the great and abominable church
before he was forced to recant; some missionaries refer to the church as the
"G & A." Missionaries to Catholic countries often come home with tales of
evil nuns and priests" (Thomas, 18).
It is clear to see how attitudes such as these mentioned can determine the
perception of this particular religious culture. Through the legends one can detect
apprehension, fear and anxieties of the presence of the outside religion as well
maintain male dominance of this patriarchal culture. The male confirms his status and
role as dominant male legend-tripping through ostension to maintain, and confirm the
importance and continuation of his role as male in his culture. Male dominance is
established in legend as initiator of courtship; protector against evil by averting evil
with power of priesthood (Example above: 2. Heckada: L2.3.1.15.9).
Another theme presented in some legends is the female outsider vs. the male
insider: the female breaks the rules in these legends and pays the penalty. She either
becomes ostracized as the nun who becomes pregnant in St. Anne's Retreat:
(L2. 1. 12. 1.34) which is noted by the following: St. Anne's Retreat was originally
established up Logan Canyon for Cache Valley's Catholic nuns who needed to "get
away" from things for awhile. One nun got herself in trouble ... she couldn't walk the
streets in her condition, so she was sent to St. Anne's ... " This may not only be
illustrating the attitudes of the local Mormon religion of their perception of such a
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situation by stating that pregnant unwed women cause shame and should be hidden
away-but this situation may also be inverse of reality and that it reflects their own
attitudes about as if happened to their own. The punishment for breaking moral codes
may even become rape and murder as in the following version S. "Hekeda and Her
Dogs" (Fife Folklore Archives, ColI. 8. usu. ColI. 8. 84-0S0.Item 6). The stories
projected on the nuns and the punishment received for breaking the rules may illustrate
local attitudes and feelings towards moral transgressions. Thus the legends send a strong
message to conform to local codes of living.
Other themes represented are 1) In the first version: nun gets pregnant by a priest;
nun has baby and drowns it in the legendary swimming pool located at St. Anne's; nun
commits suicide but remains as a ghost and haunts the place (as a dog); sounds of dogs
howling. 2) The second version: An example of legend-tripping functioning as teenage
courtship scene. (Toelken, personal communication; Fife Folklore Archives:
L2.3.1.1S.9; Thomas, IS). Boy takes girl to this haunted place with hopes of romancing.
Also present is the notion of calling Hekate's name three times to make Hekate appear.
This of course not only has the effect of scaring the girl, but also brings about various
phenomena as described in the story. There is also the presence of dogs, a green
glowing chariot with Hekate at the helm; she also later speaks to the boy, and the car not
starting. There is a definite religious overtone as well in this traditional story. The boy
chases away the evil (nun) Hekate with the words "In the name of Jesus Christ.. .. "
This seems to suggest the idea that the righteous and powerful religion prevails over the
evil presence of the other. This is followed by a safe return as explained by the
following quote: "Those who go there are invariably frightened and end up retreating to
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the safety of their own LDS culture" (Thomas, 18). This would also have the effect and
function as a "faith promoting" (Thomas, 16; Hufford, 222) event for the couple and
undoubtedly the event would continue to serve its purpose in narrative form for the
inspiration of others.
In trespass version (1) the father condones a legend-tripping tradition to St.
Anne's because he recollects his own trips to this legendary site. In other words,
there remains a general acceptance of legend-trips to this supernatural site by
precedence of local tradition, and again, because the trips to St. Anne's are so
common that it becomes a justifiable, acceptable, and a coherent custom that
consequently affects local concepts of justice.
In several of these newer trespass versions, the intruders are perceived as
being victims and are described as being harassed, even though they are the ones
breaking in! This is significant in light of a general local perception that legend­tripping
at St. Anne's is more than a local tradition and viewed by many as a
benign activity. Although it should be clear that large numbers of locals voicing
their opinion in letters to the editor articulated their dismay and frustration with the
trespassers.
In one of the stories (trespass version 3), kids are said to have been murdered at
St. Anne's; this is closely followed by the statement "kids from my school were caught
by cops." This has the appearance (as seen throughout these stories) that the trespassing
high school students were victims-even though they were breaking the law by entering
private property. It may also be a reflection of the traditional themes, incorporated into
the newer trespass stories.
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Still another possible level of meaning in the cluster of traditional stories can be
seen by using Alan Dunde's tenn "projective inversion." Dundes uses the blood libel
legend to illustrate this concept. This legend with origins in ancient times tells of Jews
killing Christian infants and children, using their blood in a ritual to make matzah. He
explains that: "The Christian guilt for indulging in symbolic ritual cannibalism is neatly
projected onto the Jews through such legends" (Dundes, 110). Dundes continues: "I am
persuaded that a more appropriate and revealing approach to the legend lies in the
Christian need for a Jewish scapegoat and in the psychological process I have tenned
"projective inversion"(Dundes, 352). The point is that the blood libel legend is Christian
folklore-"and that it is Christians, not Jews, who [tell and] would like to commit the
blood libel" (Dundes, 354). Also important to note that it was not the Jews who killed
Christ, it was the Romans. "Christians blame Jews for something which the Christians
needed to have happen, a thing which the Jews never did ... [so] projective inversion
refers to a psychological process in which A accuses B of carrying out an action which A
really wishes to carry out him or herself' (Dundes, 352-353). An example of what makes
clear the projective inversion in the blood libel legend is suggested by the following facts:
Jews are prohibited from consuming blood; but Christians, take part in a ritual of
consuming the body of Christ by the symbolic bread and wine (or bread and water)
symbolizing the body and blood of the Christ. Along these lines of wish fulfillment, it
appears that Christians are projecting upon the Jews what they themselves are guilty of­which
is killing and consuming the body of Christ.
Some of the themes in the legends of St. Anne's, parallel to the blood libel
legend, appear to be the reverse of reality:
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--the ghostly nuns are described as menacing and aggressive, intruding on the
visiting teenagers' courtship scene; when in fact the teenagers were trespassing
on church property.
--the nuns are described as sexually active, thus breaking local religious and
moral codes, when of course the teenagers are the ones doing the courtship
game.
These examples suggest that the very characteristics attributed to the ghostly nuns
are actually projections of the young legend-trippers, phrased in such a way as to blame
the aberrations on the other. Thomas states a similar point when infonning us that" ...
the majority of those telling the legend are Monnons ... [and that the] St. Anne's legend
versions are ostensibly about Catholics and certain Catholic practices; however, a closer
study of the versions reveals that they are really about Monnons and their view of
Catholics ... " (Thomas, 15). This appears to support the notion of projective inversion
and its function in the St. Anne's legends by projecting an inverse reality.
It has been nearly three years since the ambush of local legend-trippers by
security guards at St. Anne's. The stories currently circulating among local youth
continue to illustrate the dynamics of folklore and the power of local tradition. Tradition
propelled by local belief is clearly seen in the survey of local high school students,
recalling the Halloween trespass incident of 1997; basic versions were also produced in
the survey. Out of twenty-five students surveyed, fourteen mentioned elements from the
trespassing event, while eleven used a traditional motif. So what does this mean?
It tells us that this incident of three years ago was more than news. In fact it
clearly fits into a so-called "civic brush fire incident." Grant Davie uses this phrase in
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describing local news bits that have a huge impact on the local population (Grant Davie,
1-2). It is evident by local newspaper articles and particularly editorials, both in the 1997
trespass incident, and certainly also the uproar that Diane Browning's article created in
1986, that St. Anne's is a topic that clearly fits into this "civic brush fire" category.
Grant-Davie proposes four qualifying areas as conditions for civic brush fire incidents
and St. Anne's is one of his examples:
1) A provocative incident: The St. Anne's controversy was started in
dramatic fashion by two events in quick succession: first the teens' visit to
the property and the caretakers' hostile reaction, and then the raising of
criminal charges against all involved. 2) An emblematic object or image:
In the example of the St. Anne's incident, the incident itself provided a
strong enough image-an angry, nighttime confrontation between a few
armed men and a crowd of thrill-seeking teenagers-to excite the general
public's imagination. 3) Accessible media and forums: The St. Anne's
debate was played out in at least seven articles, two guest commentaries, 17
letters to the editor, more than 50-callin messages (a selection of nine of
which were printed), and an editorial. 4) A conflict between threatened
values: This was very apparent in the St. Anne's incident, which became a
debate between property rights and civil rights. The first wave of letters to
the editor sided with the caretakers, who were characterized as heroes
wrongly crucified for defending property and taking a stand against
vandalism, while the second wave defended the teens' actions as a
harmless, traditional prank and condemned the caretakers for assaulting
and terrorizing them (Grant Davie, 3-5). [only definition, and material
pertaining to St. Anne's included]
Grant-Davie also suggests that the brush fires surrounding the St. Anne's incident
"were fueled by some fundamental issues and deeply-rooted values [my emphasis] that
fired the public emotions" (Grant Davie, 6). So, yes--clearly the St. Anne's incident on
Halloween 1997 was more than local news-it goes much deeper than that. It taps
fundamental group values with regards to ex: religion, gender, and property rights, that
play a crucial role in this particular "civic brush fire" and fire up emotional debates
among the local population.
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I would like to suggest another level beyond the idea of property vs. civil rights.
This has to do with the fundamental and inherent rights as seen by the locals, of
upholding and justifying a long standing tradition of legend-tripping at St. Anne's vs. the
property owners' rights to stand up against vandalism. I propose that fundamentally it is
an issue of property vs. civil rights, but in essence it becomes an issue of local concepts
of justice vs. local folklore and tradition. Local concepts of justice are diverse and may
stem from dominant Mormon religious beliefs as can be noted throughout this discussion.
Legend-tripping at St. Anne's becomes justifiable due to the long standing custom and
tradition established in the past 50 years.
The incident of Halloween 1997 in Logan Canyon had such an impact on local
youth that stories are still circulating that tell of the frightening events surrounding the
trespassing incident. It is important to note that out of the 25 students surveyed, fourteen
stories contained primarily data of the trespassing event. This appears to demonstrate the
powerful emotions around the event itself, certainly property vs. civil rights, and lastly
the concepts of justice in defense of tradition. Perhaps the traditional St. Anne's legend
depicting supernatural phenomena-is certainly frightening enough but the memories of
the ambush of local high school students on Halloween 1997 remain a dominant image.
These are recollections of a small sample group of students surveyed as representative of
their knowledge ofSt. Anne's Retreat. So vivid are the memories ofthis event that some
of the students surveyed vow never to participate in any legend-tripping activity to at St.
Anne's.
What we have is a history of a legend-tripping custom which entails visiting a site
of the supernatural-a thrill seeking event-experiencing the legend by ostension by
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acting out the legend, which has been going on for over 50 years. First, the trespassing
• event of 1997; then the "civic brush fire" (Grant-Davie, 1) ignited after Browning's
article on Halloween 1986 that caused considerable emotional distress in the Catholic
community. In 1997, the public debate primarily deals with property rights vs. civil
• rights, and also local concepts of justice vs. local folklore and tradition; whereas in 1986
the incident provoked tension among Catholics and Mormons. Both cases involve the
legendary St. Anne's Retreat and the local lore persisting through the generations. • The trespass legend versions of 1997 collected recently from local high school . ,
students illustrate yet another dimension to the St. Anne's legend. They portray a
• sentiment of pity for the teenage offenders- portraying the lawless teenagers as victims.
It is a case where the community opinion (in the form of letters to the editor) appears to
be significantly divided, In my research it appears as though approximately fifty percent • defend property rights and condemn the behavior of the trespassers; the other fifty
percent largely condemn the actions taken by the caretakers at St. Anne's, and appear to
• minimize the incident as a teenage prank, or in some cases defend the actions of the
teenagers by indicating such things as rites of passage. According to a prominent local
resident cited in the Herald Journal, visiting St. Anne's is a local custom that most local
• residents at one time or another have taken part in. In general, the Herald Journal overall
displayed more sympathy towards the trespassers rather than those leasing the property.
The "ambush" of the trespassing teenagers was depicted vividly and as seemingly • unprovoked while little sympathy was lent to three security guards defending a property
on Halloween from 30 plus teenagers and young adults, in the middle of the night, in the
• dark, of Logan Canyon, eight miles away from town . .The event was clearly biased in the
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media, and certainly did not for the most part take into account the circumstances in
which the security guards operated under. It also did not adequately sympathize with
threats previously made to caretakers. Nor did the newspaper adequately acknowledge
the frustrations of property owners facing ongoing vandalism and destruction of their
property in Logan Canyon. To illustrate the type of news paper rhetoric that at large
demonstrated bias towards the trespassers- a few quotes follow: [Cache County Sheriff
Lynn Nelson] "The kids were wrong to trespass, he said, but they were just looking to
have some fun. "The big issue here is what these other guys did to them" (Herald
Journal, October 14, 1997. Pg. 3). A similar sentiment states: [Cache County Attorney's
Office, Scott Wyatt] Wyatt said: "St. Anne's is a local haunted house on private property
and what happened when the carloads of youngsters got there is almost unbelievable ...
It's one of the most incredible things I've ever seen ... The kids should not have done
what they did because they were trespassing but that doesn't justify the reaction of these
guys ... "(Herald Journal, October 14, 1997. Pg. 3). To further illustrate this point is to
note that repeated issues the actions of the security guards are accentuated and depicting
them as the criminals. Detailed and repeated attention is given in describing the fate of
the trespassing youth as they entered the St. Anne's property. Such accounts are
commonly referred to as "Vietnam-style terror in Logan ... they [trespassers] were
ambushed, shot at, handcuffed, tied together by their necks and threatened with their lives
by shotgun-toting private guards (Herald Journal, October 12, 1997. Pg. 1). These
images from words in the news paper are followed by detailed descriptions of the event
picturing the supposed injustice against the youth. According to my research, two
articles from the Utah State University Statesman presents the case of both parties, but in
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addition offers significant and supportive statements in defense of the security guards.
One article tells: "Some defend the gun-toting men claiming they had no other choice but
to detain the youth and protect themselves. Friday evening it was 30 on three. Some ask
the question, how were the men supposed to detain the youth and protect themselves
from retaliation?" (Statesman, October 13, 1997). Sympathetic comments such as this
one are important for a balanced view of the incident, and to understand that these
security guards did not chose to go into "combat" but acted in defense of themselves and
the property.
A fascinating aspect of the whole St. Anne's incident that only surfaces in the end
and appears to have been largely overlooked is the fact that Logan Canyon is a National
Forest. The land that the St. Anne's property consists of is actually government land
leased by the occupants (Herald Journal, March 11-12. 1998) [date based on public
hearing court documents; date of news paper release not available]. In this case the
whole controversy over trespassing becomes void, as we can see from subsequent
statements by the Forest Service because technically the youth never actually trespassed
in light of this information. All through the news articles covering the St. Anne's event
of 1997, there was only incidental mention of the U.S. Forest Service and the rules that
apply to government land. It was not until the St. Anne defendants accepted a plea
bargain on bringing an end to the trial that this issue really surfaced and played any
significant part. The Herald Journal newspaper article [date of issue not available,
however public hearing court documents are dated March 11-12, 1998 which indicates
the approximate issue of the article in the news paper] informs us that the St. Anne
defendants accepted a plea bargain, admitting guilt of assault, and consequently receiving
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reduced charges. Quoted in this article are the words of a U.S. Forest Service official
Chip Sibbemsen who said that: "he himself had removed 'no trespassing' signs at St.
Anne's, as well as from other cabins permitted as summer homes in Logan Canyon over
the years." Then Mr. Sibbernsen continues: "The permit holders at St. Anne's have
permission for a gate ... but not for the razor wire and signs that give the entrance to the
retreat a prison camp appearance. That's because the land is still public land ... not
private property" (Herald Journal, March 11-12. 1998) [approximate date based on court
documents]. The article concludes: "Basically, while permit holders have the right to
keep people out of their cabins, they can't keep people from walking through on
surrounding land. That's why the Cache County Attorney's Office dropped criminal
trespassing charges against all 38 youths captured and held at gun point by the retreat's
caretaker. ... " This in the end appears to resolve the issue of trespassing charges-but
also further complicates the question of "property ownership" and the limited power
allowed residents to defend property from invaders. What seems incredible is the fact
that it took several months for anyone to realize this fact when that should have been
obvious to law enforcement and the legal profession from the very beginning. Since this
law pertaining to public access on government land is now public knowledge, there
seems to be yet another possibility (although by chance and through a technicality) for
anyone to enter this property in the future as they wish. This may be great for the legend­tripping
tradition, but this notion certainly does not help permit holders in Logan Canyon
get any relief, or hope to end future "trespass" and vandalism on "their" properties.
So what we can understand from the 1997 incident and the 1986 Halloween
article is that the St. Anne's tradition has fueled numerous debates from property rights to
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concepts of justice and customs. But the conditions under the surface for this brush fire
to bum, as discussed throughout this paper, are important to remember in order to
understand the deep-rooted fundamental concerns of the citizens of this or any
community. Folklore is powerful, and given a function and purpose, proves to move
persistently through time as is evident from the legends surrounding St. Anne's. The
"dynamics of folklore" (Toelken, 55) powerfully illustrates not only how a local legend
has circulated for over 50 years, but how a new aspect is introduced into the realm of the
legend-that is this intense, not so easily ignored incident of Halloween 1997 which
appears through recent stories to have left its own mark on this vivid legend cluster.
The event surrounding the legend-tripping trespassers on Halloween 1997 at St.
Anne's may be viewed in terms of property rights, or a fundamental civil right to carry on
a local belief, a long standing custom-tradition, or a rite of passage. It can also be studied
as local rhetoric involving a "brush fire incident" (Grant Davie, 1). Religion and gender
appears to be a dominant factor in the complex cultural issues presented through the
legends and the legend-trips through its participants. It illustrates that the themes
discussed in this paper, and the stories it evolves around, are still vital issues to the
community at large and dramatize concerns, fears, and anxieties still present in the
undercurrent of this community. The Mormon religion is not just a religion, b~t a way of
life; it becomes clear from this and examples given in this paper, that religion plays a
central role in directing fundamental concerns such as gender roles, and fear ofthe other.
This legend will remain a vivid part of narrative tradition-as long as there is a function,
and purpose-to entertain narrator, audience, and legend-trippers ofthis local culture, as
other legends will elsewhere. Cultural issues and concerns will continue to surface in
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oral tradition and reflected and dramatized in the stories they tell; because-"Ifit weren't
important-they wouldn't keep doing it" (Toelken, personal communication).
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Works Cited
Browning, Dianne. Personal communication, March 1998.
Dundes, Allen. 1991. The Blood Libel Legend: A Casebook in Anti-Semitic Folklore.
Madison. The University of Wisconsin Press.
1997. From Game to War and other Psychoanalytic Essays on Folklore, pp. 11,
110-111. Lexington. The University Press of Kentucky.
Ellis, Bill. 1991 . Legend-Trips and Satanism: Adolescents' Ostensive Traditions as
'Cult ' Activity, pp. 279-295. The Satanism Scare. New York. de GruyterPress.
Fife Folklore Archives. Various traditional legend versions ofSt. Anne's Retreat.
Grant Davie, Keith. Civic Brushfires: The Rhetoric of Local Community Debates.
March 8, 2000 unpublished paper.
Hatch, Anne. Personal communication, March 1998.
Herald Journal. October 14, 1997. Pg. 3; October 15, 1997. Pg. 16; October 12, 1997.
Pg. 1; October 26,1986. [page number unavailable]; March 11-12 [approximate
date based on court documents from a preliminary hearing on March 11-12
recorded July 8, 1998].
Logan High School Survey. Results from survey April 2000 that produced 25 examples
total. Eleven of a traditional legend version and fourteen trespass versions­representing
stories of the Halloween trespassing incident at St. Anne's Retreat in
1997. In this survey, students were asked to recollect any version of the St.
Anne's legend and to write it down.
Hufford, David J. The Terror That comes in the Night. Philadelphia: University of
Pennsylvania Press, 1982.
Salt Lake Tribune. October 14, 1997.
Statesman (Utah State University). October 13, 1997.
Thomas, Jeannie. 1991. Hecate in Habit: Gender, Religion, and Legend. Northwest
Folklore. Vol. 9: 14-27.
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Toelken, Barre. 1996. The Dynamics of Folklore. Logan, Utah. Utah State University
Press.
Personal Communication, April 1998.
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Hecate in Logan Canyon: Origin, Belief, and Contemporary Oral Tradition
Local legends about a "Witch Hecate" primarily surface around the Spring
Hollow-Guinevah campgrounds three miles up Logan canyon. This particular area is
frequented by local Mormon youth groups (primarily girls camp) and boy scouts, where
many of these legends emerge and thrive as ghost stories told at various camps. A
parallel legend (in which Hecate appears also) about St. Anne's Retreat also depicts
Hecate, and is based on the former Catholic Retreat referred to as St. Anne's Retreat
located eight miles from Logan. This property came into the possession of the Roman
Catholic Diocese of Salt Lake City in the early1940s and was used as a retreat and a
vacation place for the Sisters of the Holy Cross (Salt Lake Tribune, October 14, 1997.
D3). Due to the frequent visits oflegend-tripping1 trespassers and vandals, the sisters
stopped coming to the retreat (Anne Hatch, personal communication) and the property
was subsequently sold (Herald Journal, October 15, 1997. Pg. 16).
In this paper I will explore the origin and history of Hecate by discussing the
ancient Goddess worship, to subsequently gain an understanding of Hecate as an ancient
underworld divinity, and the connection, if any, of the local Hecate legend character to
the ancient Goddess Hecate from history and mythology. On this journey we should
reach a broader understanding of Hecate and her performance in local legend as a
bewitched nun. An analysis and discussion of hypothetical interpretations, meanings,
functions, and symbolism-will follow. Before beginning these areas of discussion it is
necessary to introduce the reader to samples of the "Witch Hecate" legend to allow an
1 Legend-tripping is a tenn that Linda Degh, William Ellis, and others use in describing the practice of
visiting the sites of supematurallegends.
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insight into the main core of this paper topic-the legends. [All stories and citations in
this paper are quoted verbatim].
1. Witch Heketa
The story goes that an old woman lives somewhere up Logan Canyon.
She is supposed to be a witch. Her name is Heketa. It is said that she has
seven white dobermans which can become invisible at will. A local boy
and girl supposedly went up to her place one night to see if they could see
anything. They say they were sitting in the car when suddenly the
windows fogged up from the outside. They heard dogs sniffing around the
car and what sounded like a person breathing. A hand rubbed away some
of the moisture like a person breathing. A hand rubbed away some of the
moisture on the passanger window by the girl and an old womans face
looked in. The girl went into a sort of trance and floated up off the seat a
few inches. The boy got the car started and drove home quickly where his
father, who was a Mormon bishop, gave the girl a blessing and she
snapped out of the trance. The boy drove back up there the next day and
says that there were seven dog collars on the ground (Fife Folklore
Archives, L2.3.1.15.8).
2. Heckada
If you go up Logan Canyon to 3rd dam and cross the bridge into the Spring
Hollow area or go to the Quarry up Providence Canyon, you can summon
the Devil's wife, her name is Heckada. My friend's brother's girlfriend's
brother had a friend that did this very thing. He and a date went up to the
Spring Hollow area, for some romancing. After being turned down he got
out of the car and yelled the phrase" Heckada, come get me". This was the
saying that you needed to say to get Heckada to appear. After saying it a
few times he returned to the car. His date was scared, which was his main
intention for doing the little prank, or so he thought. After a few minutes
of sitting there they began to hear dogs barking, they looked up and saw a
green glowing chariot pulled by six wolves, and a mistress with long
flowing hair at the reins. At about the same instance the doors locked, the
boy and date was pretty scared by this time so the boy tried to get the car
started but it seemed like the battery was dead, nothing would start or no
lights would come on. By this time the wolves were on the hood of the
car clawing at it and grOWling. The mistress stared into the boy's eyes and
said "1 have come for you". The boy freaked out and didn't know what to
do, the girl was screaming and crying. Then the boy remembered to say
"In the name of Jesus Christ 1 command you to leave", at the very instance
of saying that, the mistress and her wolves disappeared. The boy then
started the car and returned to Logan. Upon returning to his date's house
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they looked at the hood and saw scratches that the wolves had left (Fife
Folklore Archives, L2.3.1.15.9).
3. The Old Nun
I once heard of some girls that went to girls scout camp up Logan canyon,
a few years ago. There was about 12 girls plus a few leaders. The girls
were between the ages of twelve and fifteen. They were sitting around the
campfire telling scary stories, one of which was the "Old Nun" story. The
story is about an old nun that died very angry that she had lost her youth
and beauty. She had resided at the Nunnery, also in Logan canyon.
Before she died, the nun would walk past the girls scout camp and long for
the days of her youth. She became so obsessed by this idea that she
decided by drinking the youths blood she would again be young. Well,
the kids of the camp tried to laugh off their fear not wanting to admit to
anyone that they really were scared. The group broke up after the story
telling finished and went their separate ways. The leaders of the camp
became increasingly concerned as the girls began to disappear one by one.
They called and hunted for the missing girls not getting any response at
all. A couple of girls from the camp had gone on a walk together.
Suddenly they came running back into the camp screaming and shaking
terribly. The girls reported seeing an old lady dressed as a nun, with an ax
and blood dripping from her face walking near the camp. The next day
when the sun came up six of the twelve girls were found murdered around
camp (Fife Folklore Archives, L2.1.12.1.28).
4. Hekedah-the lady ofthird dam [told by scoutmaster]
Once I decided to see if the stories about Hekedah were true. I grabbed a
friend and we grabbed two girls and set out for third dam. As is the
custom, we put the keys to the truck on the hood and then yelled for
Hekedah to come. After waiting a long time, I saw a green light forming
in the middle of the lake. I thought I was imagining things at first. It soon
formed into a face of a lady all pale and green and she was crying. We
grabbed her car keys from the hood, but waited to see what would happen.
It wasn't long until a hand and arm appeared and started motioning us to
come. (the teller motions with his hand and finger) She kept getting bigger
and bigger and was soon a full size lady coming closer and closer to our
truck. We put the keys in the ignition and tried to start the truck but
nothing happened. Finally, when she was only 4 or 5 feet away, the truck
started and we tore out of that place like crazy. [the collector continues to
provide context by saying the following] (The teller then fills in the events
in Hekedahs life which explain why she haunts the lake) Hekedah was a
recluse woman, who lived in a little cabin above third dam. She had been
quite wealthy in her life and had her money with her in the cabin. One
night, two men broke in and killed her so that they could steal the money.
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The two men were never seen or heard of again. It is said that if you look
up on the ridge on a night of the full moon, you can see the sillouette of
Hekedah , with ax in hand, chasing two men (Fife Folklore Archives,
L2.3.1.15.6).
The above mentioned legends are samples of the Hecate legend that will
be scrutinized in this study. But first it is necessary to introduce several
complementary themes that surface in the parallel legend of St. Anne's Retreat,
thus making it necessary to present sample versions of Hecate's role in the St.
Anne's legends of Logan Canyon as a witch and a crazed nun. Themes from
both "Witch Hecate" and "St. Anne's Retreat" will be discussed below.
5. Barking Dogs
Lucy and her friend were driving around the canyon one fall night when it
was really nice and warm, and they decided to go to St. Anne's. There
were three guys who wanted to go, and three girls who didn't want to go.
Since the boys were driving, they went. They parked the car by the
highway, and began walking up the dirt road. On the way, one of the guys
said "Do you know what happened up here?", and he proceeded to tell
story of the nuns. "The nuns used to come up here in the wintertime and
stay. One spring the nuns didn't come back. The townspeople went up to
investigate, and they found the bodies of the nuns floating in the
swimming pool, because they had been raped and murdered. They also
found mother superior's black dogs chained up and starved to death in a
shack." The guy telling the story suggested that they go look in the
swimming pool. While they were looking at it, one of the guys yelled,
"I'm scared," and ran to the car as fast as he could. Everyone else
followed him, but the girls were slower. As they were running down the
mountain, they heard dogs barking and chains dragging on the ground, and
they thought the dogs were chasing them. The dogs were howling and
looking for the nuns. The girls were crying because they were so scared
(Fife Folklore Archives, ColI. 8. USU. 84-050. Item 10).
6. Saint Ann's Retreat
A long time ago there used to be a nunnery at Saint Anne's. One of the
nuns got pregnant by a young priest. She hid the fact that she was
pregnant for a long time. When she had the baby she was told she had to
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leave the nunnery. She was grieved at what had happened and went out
and drowned her baby in the swimming pool, then hung herself. Her spirit
haunts the place in the form of a dog. Sometimes people can hear dogs
howling at Saint Ann's. Nobody has ever seen the dogs (Fife Folklore
Archives, L2.1.12.1.37).
These legend illustrated above are examples presenting Hecate as a bewitched
nun and includes several themes and symbolism that will be scrutinized further below.
With this introduction, the mythological and historical aspects can now be explored. A
brief over view of the origin of the Goddess follows.
In Greek mythology, Hecate depicts an underworld third dimension of a triple
Goddess representing Persephone, Demeter, and Hecate. Hecate appears as the crone
part of this triple divinity; Hecate, the crone is also represented in the two local legend
types in Logan Canyon. To extract meaning, and to gain a broader understanding of
these legends, it is necessary to start from the beginning-to a time when the Goddess
Hecate played a powerful and important role in many parts of the world. This process
should elucidate the connection, if any, of the function of the local Hecate legend
character to the ancient Goddess Hecate from history and mythology.
In ancient times, dating back as far as 25,000 years BC.until shortly after the
advent of Christianity, in many parts of the world-God was a Woman. This supreme
deity, known by many names-according to region, was revered and worshipped not only
for her fertility and procreation, but she represented wisdom, universal order (Stone,
preface) [page number unavailable], knowledge, and capability of holding vital advisory
positions. Goddess worship thrived from Neolithic periods 7000 BC., alongside of the
Judeo-Christian religions and peoples who worshipped male gods until classical periods
of Greece and Rome until around 500 A.D when any trace of this so called idolatry
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worship of the pagans was effectively, and nearly completely destroyed. (Stone, 20;
preface) [preface page number unavailable].
"She [Hecate] bestows wealth and success, good luck and advice, is powerful in
earth, sea, and heaven ... By a transference common in mythology, she became as a
goddess of plenty, an infernal deity, terrible in aspects and often snakelike, the queen of
ghosts and mistress of black magic, the keeper of the keys of Hades" (Leach, 487).
Hecate is said to have had power and influence over earth, heaven, and sea. "She
gave her votaries success in battle, in the law courts and political assembly, and in
athletics. Later she came to be associated with the darker side of life, with the
underworld and night, with ghosts ... Sometimes she herself was represented as an old
hag with snakes entwined in her hair, or she might assume the form of a mare or dog, or,
attended by hell-hounds, she haunted the cross-roads" (Pike, 174). The descriptions
offered to us by Pike and Leach effectively provides an understanding of the pre­Christian
image of the Goddess-and how hypothetically, simultaneous with the onset of
Christianity, the role reversal of women into submission under a patriarchal system
flourished. Goddess and thus Woman, is consequently seen in a subversive light­perhaps
reflecting her new role and demoted status. Although the change away from
Goddess worship appears to have taken place over thousands of years, Stone speaks of
invasions of Northern tribes which apparently had immediate, harsh effects upon the
Goddess religion by eradicating matriarchal-matrilineal societies to the new
establishment of male dominated societies. The power of the Goddess societies became
eradicated upon the solidification of a patriarchal system; [and] "only then was she
fragmented, and reduced ... " (Sjoo & Moor, 183).
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It has been argued that early cultures did not understand the connection between
• copulation and procreation and therefore worshipped the Goddess as the sole creator of
life, and the only one who could create her own kind. But with the aggressive invasions
of societies with male deities this matriarchal structure changed. The power of myth to
• create perception and belief among man and woman-kind can be seen from the Adam and
Eve myth. Stone talks about this being a dramatic and powerful turning point in the
• manifestation and eradication of the Goddess. The Adam and Eve myth accomplished
this by blaming Eve for the fall of mankind. Her punishment was to suffer pain in
childbirth, and to serve man as a helpmate and inferior in status (Stone, foreword). This
• is something to keep in mind as we note gender issues in these legends.
The image of Hecate in lighter times shows that the Goddess was revered for her
contributions to the world; this was before she was demoted in status and seen as dark • and sinister. After a mythological transference as mentioned by Leach-Hecate takes on
a sinister-darker image. Hecate is held as moon Goddess, Queen of Ghosts, and deity of
• the Crossroads (Sjoo & Moor, 183). After the entry to darker times "Hecate was
[became] the destroyer; newborn children and animals were sacrificed to her" (Sjoo &
Moor, 183). These are things this triple goddess has represented through time. With this
• in mind, we can examine some classic themes existent in the local legends.
Among some of the themes evident in both the historically documented mythical
• origins from darker times of Hecate that are evident in "Witch Hecate" and the parallel
"St. Anne's legends are:
1. The triple dimension concept.
2. Hecate's Suppers - Hecate at the Cross Roads. • 3. Hecate and the keys of Hades-keys as part of ritual in legend-tripping.
4. Sacrifice of newborns-in reference to the swimming pool as an altar.
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5. Hecate as Moon Goddess and Queen of Ghosts.
6. Presence and symbolism of torch.
7. Various themes connecting function and local religious culture i.e. presence of
local dominant religion in legends as the righteous prevailing over evil.
The Triple Dimension Concept
There are several theories of the triple dimension concept of Hecate. One is that it
represents "the three faces of woman: maiden, mother, and crone" (Thomas, 22).
Theories ofthe triple head however, is that the triple head represents earth-heaven-sea
(Pike, 173); past-present-future; three formed because of association with the moon:
crescent-full-waning (Barnard, 85); yet another theory suggests a three headed dimension
has to do with the need for Hecate (at the Crossroads, discussed below) to look down in
three directions.
In local legend versions Hecate appears to represent the triple dimension of what
Thomas refers to as the "three faces of woman" by the following: "The legend versions
depict woman as nun-a virginal maiden (Persephone); woman as a pregnant nun who
becomes a mother (Demeter); a woman as a death threatening witch (Hecate) (Thomas,
22)." This can be seen in the following legend versions:
First, the image of nuns being raped as was the virginal maiden Persephone raped
by Hades. "The nuns used to come up here in the wintertime and stay. One spring the
nuns didn't come back. The townspeople went up to investigate, and they found the
bodies of the nuns floating in the swimming pool, because they had been raped and
murdered" (Fife Folklore Archives, ColI. 8. USU. 84-050. Item 5).
Second, the ancient notion of nuns and priests engaging in sexual acts; and
consequently depicted in some of these legends as pregnant and having babies. This
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image may represent Demeter- mother of Persephone evident by the following quote:
"One of the nuns got pregnant by a young priest" (Fife Folklore Archives, L2.1.12.1.37).
Third, a depiction of Hecate-a woman as a witch or sometimes referred to as the
devil's wife: "The story goes that an old woman lives somewhere up Logan Canyon.
She is suppose to be a witch" (Fife Folklore Archives, L2.3.1.15.8). Another version
similarly states: "If you go up Logan Canyon to 3Td dam ... you can summon the Devil's
wife, her name is Heckada" (Fife Folklore Archives, L2.3.1.15.9).
Hecate's Suppers - Hecate at the Cross Roads
The Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics explains that crossroads are regarded as
the dwelling place of evil spirits and ghosts creating bad luck and danger. Hecate is the
Divinity of Crossroads (E.R.E. Vol. II, 330b). This is a place where at a new or full
moon, rich people would worship her by leaving offerings in forms of food referred to as
"suppers of Hecate." The crossroads was also a symbolic place for the sacrifices of
newborn babies. Myth tells how "Hecate, as newly born infant, was exposed at a cross­way,
but rescued and brought up by shepherds. This probably points to an actual custom
of exposure at cross-roads ... (E.R.E.Voi. II 333b). Dogs were also a form of sacrifice at
the cross-roads.
St. Anne's may by a symbol of crossroads in terms of culture, religion and
gender. A ghostly nun, may be a symbol of a strange outside culture and religion in
which females at the retreat are perceived by locals to be dominant. The nuns in the
legends take on aspects of Hecate-and she haunts this metaphoric crossroads. Hecate is
known as the mother of ghosts (Leeming, 152); just as the nun becomes mother, she
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(Hecate-the nun) in a twisted way is also mother of dead sacrificed newborn babies who
represent ghosts in the legends, and their spirits haunt the place. Another interesting
theme is the presence of dogs in the legends and the historical significance in reference to
"Hecate's Suppers." It explains that the poor and dogs would often consume the food
offerings left at crossroads-hence the presence of dogs around the local legendary
Hecate. Dogs are also told to be a form of sacrifice left at the crossroads (E.R.E., Vol.
VI. 566b; Vol. II 333b; [Vol. Vill. 333b D. In tradition, dogs are often associated with
the devil (Toelken, personal communication) which may explain their presence in
Hecate's darker times.
Hecate and the keys of Hades: keys as part of ritual in legend-tripping
Keys are sometimes an important symbol in "Witch Hecate" and "St. Anne's"
legends. From a mythological perspective, Hecate is known to hold and possess the keys
of Hades. "She is even called the Lady bearing the keys of the Universe .. . " [it is
further explained that] "The significance of the keys generally signifies the power over
the regions ... (E. R. E. Vol. Vill 123a). Keys become a central point of a specific
ritual, and playa significant role in this following legend version: "This is supposed to
have happened to someone when they went up to St. Anne's. They drove their car up
there, parked it, and turned off the lights. They put their car keys on the top of the car to
bring Witch Hekeda down. A light shone on the car and the car keys disappeared. They
couldn't leave St. Anne's without their keys, and they never returned home (Fife Folklore
Archives, ColI. 8. USU collection#?! item #3 and 4)." This narrative clearly seems to
suggest that Hecate is the holder of the keys-including their keys. She is the divinity of
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the underworld who not only possesses their keys and but also has obvious powers over
this particular region (St. Anne's Retreat and the Spring Hollow area). She appears to
detennine in this story if in fact these trespassers may leave or not.
Sacrifice of newborns-in reference to the swimming pool as an altar
As discussed above, newborn babies are known to be a fonn of sacrifice at the
crossroads. In the local legends discussed in this paper, the illegitimate offspring ofthe
nuns is also known to be sacrificed. It can be understood as a local, modem day
metaphoric crossroads; and on this site, newborn babies are also said to be murdered
(sacrificed)-namely in the legendary swimming pool at St. Anne's Retreat. The
swimming pool, with its frequent reference to murder in the legends, may serve as a
symbolic altar in depicting the drowning babies and nuns. The ancient custom and ritual
at doorways functioned to avert evil, and signified a place where offerings and sacrifices
were made (altars often being placed right inside doorways). One can hypothesize that
the intruders at St. Anne's in fact also came through a doorway (symbolic door, i.e. gate)
to enter the 8t. Anne's property-to become a potential sacrifice as haunted victims of a
ghostly nun.
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Hecate as Moon Goddess and Queen of Ghosts
Hecate is considered by many to be primarily the moon Goddess "and one who
forecasts perilous, unwelcome change" in the night [handout, Jeannie]. Hecate, the deity
of crossroads-haunts the crossroads with her triple head staring in three directions to
keep watch over evil powers. It is at new moon or full moon that offerings are given to
Hecate at the crossroads. "Hecate is Mother of Ghosts, Queen of the underworld, of
death" (Leeming, 152).
In the legends it is common to witness supernatural phenomena at a full moon.
One such account is: "Near Saint Anne's retreat up in Logan Canyon there is a small
canyon. It is said if you go to this canyon around midnight, with the moon full in the
night sky, and you call the name Heckata three times she will appear" (Fife Folklore
Archives, L2.1.12.1.48).
Presence and Symbolism ofthe Torch
The torch in mythic terms symbolizes Demeter's search for her daughter
Persephone after Hades raped her and took her to the underworld. Demeter searches
desperately for her daughter with "lighted torches in her hands" (E.R.E. Vol. XU, 390a).
Perhaps, in accordance with some legend versions, Hecate in the form of a bewitched
nun, is also told to carry a torch; but rather than a torch in these examples, she uses a
lantern. No longer is Hecate (or the bewitched nun) looking for her daughter
Persephone, but she may be wandering the grounds of St. Anne's or Spring Hollow
searching for her murdered baby. The following examples illustrate such stories. First,
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an apparent torch, second, a lantern: (Fife Folklore Archives, L2.3.1.15.4; ColI. 8. usu.
The Lynching Mob item#8).
Various themes connecting function and local religious culture i.e. presence of local
dominant religion in legends as the righteous prevailing over evil
There exists a definite local religious flavor across many of the local Hecate
legend versions depicting the more favorable dominant local religious culture over the
strange, perhaps threatening outside influence of the Catholics. This is evident in legend
#1 above, labeled "Witch Heketa" illustrated by the following quote:
A hand rubbed away some of the moisture on the passanger window by the
girl and an old womans face looked in. The girl went into a sort of trance
and floated up off the seat a few inches. The boy got the car started and
drove home quickly where his father, who was a Mormon bishop, gave the
girl a blessing and she snapped out of the trance [my emphasis] (Fife
Folklore Archives, L2.3.1.15.8).
Another example from legend #2 above, labeled "Heckada" tells:
The mistress stared into the boy's eyes and said "I have come for you". The
boy freaked out and didn't know what to do, the girl was screaming and
crying. Then the boy remembered to say "In the name of Jesus Christ I
command you to leave" [my emphasis] at the very instance of saying that, the
mistress and her wolves disappeared (Fife Folklore Archives, L2.3.1.15.9).
This clearly represents what Hufford refers to as "faith promoting" events or
stories (Hufford, 222). It serves to reaffirm the dominant and superior religion over the
intruding, strange outside church as represented by the presence of nuns in Logan
Canyon. It appears to symbolize that good (Mormon bishop giving blessing-and
chasing evil spirits away with "in the name of Jesus Christ") breaks the spell of the evil
abominable and apostate church as noted through Mormon doctrine (Thomas, 18; Notes
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7). Thomas continues: "Those who do go to the site are invariably frightened and end up
retreating to the safety of their own LDS culture."
Another prominent theme surfacing in the legends is that of gender. This brings
us back to the beginning of this paper-speaking ofthe Goddess and her mythological
presence in local legend and geography. It brings forth aspects of challenges from a
matriarchal and matrilineal local codes of living stemming from a patriarchal culture,
based on religious beliefs dating back to the Old Testament. It is portrayed and
manifested through the mythological Goddess Hecate, the power of the Goddess and
Woman-challenging the notion of the patriarchal system; it confronts, and perhaps
challenges local beliefs and attitudes in a culture dominated by men. In accordance with
local belief-the female in the legends appear to take on a submissive and subservient
role. As evident in the example in the previous paragraph, the male is dominant and has
the power to avert evil. From this it is important to note that the Mormon bishop is male,
while the Goddess Hecate is female. Stone describes the Paradise myth as "still the
bedrock of fundamental theological arguments that women are divinely ordained to be
subservient." This idea seems clear when looking at Mormon doctrine, and the status and
role of the woman in local culture and legend; while the challenge to retain a status quo
in a world that is in constant challenge of the patriarchal system and its dominance over
women. It is the male who in many ofthe stories initiates the courtship ritual of visiting
these sites haunted with the presence of the (female) supernatural. He appears as
dominant male, aggressor, and savior; he is also capable through the power of the
Mormon priesthood to revert evil, as mentioned in version #2 above. The male initiates
courtship; the female is depicted in the legends as resisting his advances while she is
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expected to refrain from intimacy until marriage. So here her belief and moral codes are
challenged. While his advances and plans for romance goes awry, he gets angry and calls
upon the supernatural. He evidently inhibits the power to do so, as well as to make the
evil go away using religious authority, power of the priesthood (which is in present day
only given to men), and subsequently brings them both back to the safety of the Mormon
culture. Example: (Legend version #2 above; Fife Folklore Archives, L2.3.1.15.9).
Other examples of male dominance and female subordination are: "There were three
guys who wanted to go, and three girls who didn't want to go. Since the boys were
driving, they went" [my emphasis]. Once there, one ofthe boys proceeds to tell the St.
Anne's legend. Later in the story, it tells of everyone running back to the car-but the
girls were slower" [my emphasis] (Fife Folklore Archives, ColI. 8. USU. 84-050. Item
10). Some stories further illustrate moral transgressions as being punishable by rape and
death (Fife Folklore Archives, L 5,11,12). This concept also has ancient origins. As the
male deities took prominence in the Goddess religions [time period] or as illustrated in
ancient Hebrew societies (Stone, 56) the moral codes so dictated that punishment for
moral transgressions was to be put to death. The ancient belief and custom went as far as
to punish a woman who had been raped with death. The notion of moral transgressions
punishable by death as noted through ancient belief and custom, and as depicted in local
legend is evident in the depiction of the female-a nun-who becomes the model for
unacceptable moral behavior and consequently becomes raped and murdered for her
choices. This possible representation may serve as a powerful image to members
participating in this local courtship ritual and serves as a reminder to follow principles as
set forth by the indigenous religion.
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The mythological and historical significance of the Goddess religion in relation to
the presence of the mythological Goddess appearing as a nun in local legends has been
presented and illustrates several themes drawn somehow from mythology of Goddess­Hecate.
The presence of these classical themes incorporated in the modern legends may
remain a curious aspect, but as a whole, all of the stories seek to exemplify certain
aspects of the local people's attitudes and beliefs. This is illustrated in what may
constitute their fears and concerns. One of these has to do with gender. Underlying
anxieties are displayed through these legends and may stem from the systematic changes
in the roles of women through time. To understand the present day presence of the
Goddess Hecate in local legend, it is important to understand that gender is still an vital
and combative issue-particularly in the local religious culture that may resist the
worldly changes around them in order to maintain their religious convictions, including
the role and status of woman in this culture. Somehow, Hecate an ancient mythical
underworld divinity-manages to creep into modern day local legends; the resiliency of
this myth thousands of years old functions today to in ways described above. The triple
Goddess Hecate performs as a witch and a nun in both legend versions; and in a sense,
she is still worshipped today as thrill seekers tempt their fate by making visits to her
habitat in the metaphoric crossroads of Logan Canyon.
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Works Cited
Barnard, Mary. 1967. The Mythmakers. New York. H. Wolff.
Fife Folklore Archives. Various traditional legend versions ofSt. Anne's Retreat and
Witch Hecate.
Hastings, James, editor. 1980. Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics. Edinburgh,
England. T & T Clark LTD.
Hatch, Anne. Personal communication April 1998.
Herald Journal. October 15, 1997. Opinion section.
Hufford, David 1. The Terror That comes in the Night. Philadelphia: University of
Pennsylvania Press, 1982.
Leach, Maria, editor. 1949. Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary of Folklore
Mythology and Legend. New York. Funk and Wagnalls Company
Leeming, David; Paige, Jake. 1994. Goddess: Myths of the Female Divine. New York.
Oxford University Press.
Pike, Royston. 1958. Encyclopedia of Religion and Religions. New York. Meridian
Books, mc.
Salt Lake Tribune. October 14, 1997. D3.
Sjoo, Monica; Mor, Barbara. 1975. The Great Cosmic Mother. San Fracisco. Harper &
Row, Publishers.
Stone, Merlin. 1976. When God was a Woman. New York. The Dial Press.
Thomas, Jeannie. 1991. Hecate in Habit: Gender, Religion, and Legend. Northwest
Folklore. Vol. 9: 14-27.
Toelken, Barre. Personal Communication, April 1998; May 2000.
17]]> Anna-Maria Arnljots]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library.]]> legends (folk tales);]]> application/pdf;]]> 18963088 Bytes]]> eng]]> Text;]]> Logan Canyon (Utah); Cache County (Utah); United States;]]> 2000-2009; 21st century;]]> Logan Cooperative Mercantile Institution (Logan, Utah)--History; Zion's Co-operative Mercantile Institution--History; Cooperative societies--Utah--Logan; Mormon Church--Utah--Logan--History; Logan (Utah)--History;]]> Arrington, Leonard J.]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> SCAMSS0043Bx001Bk03-032.pdf]]> Logan (Utah); Cache County (Utah); Utah; United States;]]> 1860-1869; 1870-1879;]]> Utah State Agricultural College--Publications; Lectures and lecturing--Utah; Lectures and lecturing--Utah--Logan; Economic policy; Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints--History--19th century; Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints--History--20th century;]]> Utah State Agricultural College; Presentations; Mormonism; Economic Policy;]]> Arrington, Leonard J.;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Logan, Cache County, Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5777544 ;]]> 20th century; 1950-1959;]]> Karen State, Burma, Refugee camp, Immigration, Family, Languages, School, Citizenship test.]]> Page
1
CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET
Interviewee: Aye Win
Present: Aye Win, Meagan Gill, Chit Moe, Wes Van de Water, Bethany
Hanks
Place of Interview: Aye Win’s home in Logan, Utah
Date of Interview: May 19, 2015
Language(s): Karen; English
Translation:
Interviewer: Meagan Gill
Interpreter: Chit Moe
Recordist: Bethany Hanks
Photographer: Wes Van de Water
Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-
18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic
microphone
Transcription Equipment:
Transcribed by: Meagan Gill, May 25, 2015
Transcript Proofed by: Meagan, May 26, 2015
Brief Description of Contents: Aye Win describes her life in a refugee camp and in
Burma before she came to the United States. She explains what brought her to the
Thailand refugee camp and the difference between her homeland and her home here in
the United States. Aye Win also talks about her family, English classes, holidays in the
camp and out of the camp, and keeping in contact with her friends from the refugee
camp.
Reference: MG = Meagan Gill
MGI = Meagan Gill interpreted by translator
AW = Aye Win
AWI = Aye Win interpreted by translator
WV = Wes Van de Water
WVI = Wes Van de Water interpreted by translator
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win
Page
2
BH = Bethany Hanks
BHI = Bethany Hanks interpreted by translator
NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and false
starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcribed. All additions to
transcript are noted with brackets.
TAPE TRANSCRIPTION
[00:01]
MG: Today is May 19, 2015. Its 1:07. My name is Meagan I am here with Bethany
Hanks, doing uh…audio (laughing), and Wes Van de Water, he’s taking pictures
today. We are students from Utah State University working on an oral history
project, refugees for Cache Valley. And today I am interviewing Aye Win.
Thanks for letting us interview you today. Can I have you state your full name
and birth year for me please?
AW: My name is Aye Win. Uh, my birthday May 1, 1974.
MG: K. Thanks. And what languages do you speak?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: I speak Karen & Burmese.
MG: K. Tell me about your family?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: Can you rephrase that. A she’s not getting that question.
MG: Um…Tell me about your parents & spouse & children & where they are at?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
[laughing]
AWI: Okay. Well, she’s still not understanding your question I guess. Well, she told me
that um... our family, my family came here for education purposes.
Cache Valley Refugee Oral History Project: Aye Win
Page
3
[laughing]
[2:30]
MG: Okay.
AWI So you might want to ask in a different way I guess.
MG: Okay, sure. Start with how many children do you have?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: Four, four.
MG: Okay. And do you have any other family with you here?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: No
MG: Okay. Can you describe the ethnic or religious community that you belong to if
any?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: My religious is Buddhist and that’s it.
MG: Okay. Can you tell me about your birth country?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: From Burma. I was born in Burma.
MG: How long did you live there?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
[3:44]
AWI: About fifteen years.
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MG: K. And why did you leave?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: When or why?
MG: Why?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
[4:19]
AWI: Well, uh when I was little you know um, I just kinda follow my parents I guess.
And there were Burmese military everywhere you know. They come to our
village they were attacking us and me I just follow my parents. We had to sleep in
a forest for three or five days. And then when we come back I’m just going back
with them so that’s why I think I…that’s why I left Burma.
MG: Okay. And after the forest where did you go?
AWI: Going back home.
MG: Back home to?
AWI: To village. Okay.
MG: To village.
[4:55]
AWI: So the…the Burmese military come attack everybody in the village so to escape
that we went to the forest. We slept there for a few days then when…you know
things quiet down we come back to our village again.
MG: Okay. And what was your experience like in a refugee camp?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
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[5:49]
AWI: [clears throat] Well, my experience in refugees, um. Well, my experience in
refugee camp I got married and um...I had one children in refugee camp and back
then I wanted to go back home to visit Burma. But I was so scared that I’d…I’d
never get a chance to go back.
[laughing]
MG: Okay. Can you tell me about the food and medical care you received in the camp?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
[7:03]
AWI: Um. Well, yes we…we do receive food and medical care in the refugee camp, but
for a pregnant women when I was pregnant back then. Um, we had like people
what organization who are called AMI, IRC, they like come every week and give
us…give the pregnant woman um…some like five eggs um…one bottle of oil and
then one bag of beans. So, you know just to keep the pregnant ladies healthy. So,
yeah if you…you were about to give birth and they’d take you to like…they’d
keep you at a hospital so like…they’d admit you to the hospital so that you can
stay and give birth. So, yeah.
[camera clicking]
MG: Did you work or go to school in the camp at all?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
[8:17]
AWI: Yeah, well when I was small I did go to school uh…I went to school for four days
and that’s it. And after I got married I just never got a chance to go to school
again because I had to take care of my kids you know. And I ran eh uh…a little
shop in a refugee camp and I kinda sell stuff. Groceries.
MG: K. What were the day to day living conditions like in the camp like?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
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AWI: Well, um…for…for guys, you know [clear throat] uh…for day to day they’d go
outside of camp and go and uh…plant corn, pick chilies, but for a woman
they’d…they’d stay home and take care of kids. And if they’d have more time
they’d also go outside of the camp and do the same thing as the guys.
MG: Okay. And did you celebrate any holy days, holidays in the camp?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: Yes. Like Karen New Year we have Karen New Year and Christmas day and
those kinds of holidays.
[10:09]
MG: Okay. Did you use any special like decorations or were you able to get any kind
of presents for the holidays?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: Yes, for Christmas we…we do. I did receive gifts like from a friend and then I
kinda have to give it back. Like you know from friend to friend thing. So, yes.
MG: K. What was the political climate like in the camp?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
[laughing]
AWI: Um I…I don’t know.
[laughing]
MG: K. Did you feel safe in the camp?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: Yeah, um I mean I do like living in a refugee camp, but it just uh…sometimes like
we you know just kinda have to live with fears I guess. Cuz you had to be afraid
of the Burmese soldiers. You know they’ll kind of…will come your burn…will
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come and burn the…the refugee camp cuz they do that all the time. Or sometimes
we had be afraid of Burmese military and the Karen military they were fighting
each other and we were…I was afraid I might get hit. So yeah.
[camera clicking]
MG: How did you learn about the U.S refugee program?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
[13:26]
AWI: Okay, well so. Well, so…so you know I didn’t learn huh…well I so…the thing is
so…when I was let’s say teenagers age. Around teenagers age um…um…the
Burmese military were coming and forcing people to you know forcing people to
become a potter. And they were looking for especially like…like…eighteen to
seventeen years old man or woman. Both man and woman. So, you know I…me
and my friend we were just really scared. We were like uh…it’s not safe to live in
here anymore. Let’s just go to Thailand. Let’s just cross the border. So, yeah we
decided…we went to Thailand and we stay in a city. In the city uh…it’s more like
a town. It’s called The-wa-fa. We stay in that city. We stay there for a few months
picking corn, chilies.
[translator interrupts]
AWI: You guys want to write that [laughing]? T. h.e…the wa dablu o wa. How do you
spell? Wa. [laughing] Thaw.
AWI continued: Yeah, we stay there for a…just a few months doing daily things.
Picking chilies, planting corn. And it was nice. But then after…after um…I can’t
remember the date, but the Burmese military and the Karen military were in they
were in conflict…conflicts. And they were fighting each other and then that…that
war went straight for three days and three nights. So, me and my friend were
really scared you know because of what was going on around us. So…and a lot of
people died that…in those three days and so...and everybody was running you
know just running for their lives. So…so…what can I do I just kind of follow
everybody where they’re going and…and me I ended up in a refugee camp and
so…I guess that’s how I learned about refugee camp.
MG: Okay. And how did you apply and who helped you get to the U.S?
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MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
[cut in audio]
[16:55]
AWI: Well, yeah there isn’t anybody to help, but it’s not hard. It’s not a difficult process
to…to come to the United States. You know, you just have to fill out an
application and they’ll call your names you know. Hey, so you’re um…set to go
to United States. That’s what they’ll tell you, but the thing is um…I…I did not
know that you know I have to pay rent, utility bills, insurance bills. Everything
you know. But in…in compared to refugees’ camp or Burma you don’t pay
anything. You have a house you stay, you do what you want. Nothing is…you
don’t have to pay anything basically, but here its different you know. In order you
know in order to let you…you had to pay rent and things and stuff. So, yeah.
MG: K. Tell me about coming to the United States? When did you first arrive here?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: Um… I…I got here on June 9, 2008.
MG: And where did you first come…come to?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
AW: Salt Lake City
AWI: In Salt Lake.
MG: Okay. What were the first months like?
[18:24]
AWI: Well, we didn’t like it you know. We don’t speak the language. We don’t know
what to do or where to go. Or we don’t like…like clueless. So, no we didn’t like
the first month.
MG: Okay. Did you receive any help from the U.S. or religious organizations when
you got here?
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MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
[19:18]
AWI: Yes. Um…so when I first arrive in the United States I…I did went…went to…to
the church for a few months I guess. And like during Christmas they will come
buy my child like a shoes, like boots and stuff. So yes we…I did received help
from the religious church.
[19:34]
MG: Okay. Did you get help from any other organizations?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: Yes. There is another organization called IRC and that’s where we came like, we
had to go through their office…not office, but we had to go through like,
applications and stuff. And they were the ones that bring us here you know. And
they had to take care of us for three months. There yeah, there was like their
promise or something. So we receive plates and blankets, and kind of a lot of stuff
from them. Yeah.
MG: Okay. [clear throat] How long have you lived in Cache Valley?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: About six and a half years.
MG: K. And what do you do here?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
[20:54]
AWI: Um…[clear throat] Well, before um…I used to work at elementary school. I
kinda, but I already quit that job, but now because I have a little child to take care
of. I can just stay home. Yeah.
MG: Okay. What’s it like for you and your family here?
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MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: I guess we um…Well, we are surviving here day to day and that is good. We get
pay you know my dad. My husband. [laughing] He works at JBS and um…then
we get pay every two weeks. We use those money to pay rent to pay utility bills.
It’s all gone. We get it again. It just kinda go in circles. Yeah.
[22:02]
MG: Okay. Do you feel included in the Logan community?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
[22:22]
AWI: Um…not really. Because you know I don’t speak English. So, yeah. [laughing]
MG: Alright. What would make you feel more included in the community?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: [laughing] Uh, I don’t know.
[22:51]
MG: Okay. Tell me about your home her. How’s it different from your home in your
birth country?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
[23:32]
AWI: Um, so it’s really different. Um, here um…I mean back in Burma you know
where my birth country is. You kinda live. The only thing you…you have to fear
is that the Burmese military. Other than that you don’t actually have any worries.
You don’t have to worry about rent, bills, or food. You can kinda go out work.
You get pay. You can either by like I know small stuff…just kinda go day to day
without a lot of worries. But here you kinda have to kinda think of everything.
Think of: Oh, I need to have this much to pay for my rent. So…here you just kind
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of think…think of financial situation here you know. You can’t you…just have to
keep in mind that it’s different from your home here. So, I guess that’s the
difference.
[24:40]
MG: Okay. Can you tell me your experiences with your landlord?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
[25:06]
AWI: Well, this well…the current manager well…call him manager because she’s the
manager of the land. She’s really nice you know. Let’s say something wrong with
our house we…I can…I can go there and be like: Hey something is wrong. But
although I don’t speak English she will come and look at it herself and that’s
really nice, but the previous manager kinda not that nice. So good experience.
MG: Okay. What would you like people in Logan to know about you, your family, or
your ethnic group:
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: [laughing] I don’t know. [laughing]
MG: Mmm…let’s see. Would you like to go back to your country?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: Yes, um… my dad is…my dad is still in Burma. And I want to go back. I just
don’t have the money to go back yet. So, yeah. One day.
MG: Would you ever go back to live?
[26:52]
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
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AWI: Well, it’s something that I have thought of…going back and staying there
permanently. But I’m not sure yet because my children are still going to school
and you know I still have to be here and support them. So, but yeah. Not sure.
MG: What are you most proud of?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
[27:57]
AWI: Well, uh my children they have a...you know better life here than I did back then.
So, I’m really happy for that and now Chit Moe, that’s me [laughing], uh…going
to college is really good thing I guess you know. I’m happy to see my child get to
go to college and that’s just had never happened in my family.
MG: Nice. What are your dreams for the future?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
[28:57]
AWI: For my future dream I would say for every for my four childrens I really want
them to have education. I really want them to have knowledge you know. Even if
me and my husband die I’m sure they would still be able to live and support
themselves with what they learned you know. So, yeah. [laughing]
MG: Okay. Would you ever like to go to school again?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: Yes. I am planning on taking English classes at ELC soon because I failed citizen
test two times already. So, I feel the need of taking it…taking the English class
again.
MG: Okay.
AWI: Okay.
[29:54]
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MG: Do you have any favorite activities to do here in Logan?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
[30:44]
AWI: I’m not sure. [laughing] I don’t know. I guess, I mean there are a lot of things to
do in Logan, but...Yeah, so.
MG: Okay. Well, is there anything that I haven’t asked you that you’d like to tell us?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: Well, no. Not really, but I’m just thankful for you guys being here and doing
interview. So. [laughing]
MG: That’s all of my questions. Do you mind if my colleagues…if they have any
questions they can ask you?
MGI: [repeating question in Karen]
[signaled in the positive]
BH: Um…I have some questions. So, I was wondering about these um…the lights up
here. Are they just decoration…you just like having them up?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: Yeah, just for decorations and we keep that for Christmas. [laughing]
BH: I bet they look nice. Um…
AWI: No go ahead.
BH: That actually reminds me of a question I had. So you…you mentioned that you’re
Buddhist and in the camps though, you celebrate Christmas. Is that a holiday that
um…Buddhist’s normally celebrate? I just wonder.
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
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[32:54]
AWI: Yes, uh…like I say I was a Buddhist back in refugee camp, but I have friends who
are not Buddhist you know. They celebrate Christmas and I don’t want to be
stranger or anything. So, just kind of you know were friends. So, yeah Christmas.
So, that’s how that happened.
BH: Okay. And you still celebrate Christmas?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: Yes, and it’s still for the same reasons. Have friends heres and sometimes they
come and celebrate. Um… likes with Karen um…I don’t know. Well, she hasn’t
talked this, but it’s from my…no…never mind…no.
[signaled to go ahead]
Um…so Karen I think every Christmas like, especially with their Christianity
they…they will go house to house and play music with their guitar. Like a group
of Karen…like big group and they will come to your door and sing. So, it’s just
kind of…does…did you guys do that? Or?
[MG, BH, and WV answer at once]
MG: Caroling.
MG, BH, and WV: Yeah.
BH: Christmas caroling.
WV: Caroling.
AWI: Oh really, okay. So that’s not strange yeah.
BH: Mmm…hmm. Usually, just without a guitar.
AWI: But it’s with a guitar. Yeah.
BHI: It’s with a guitar.
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AWI: Yeah.
BH: So, why a guitar?
AWI: Well, so you can sing better. You can follow the tone or something. [laughing] I
don’t know. I’ve just never been to one. Um, like back…back in refugee camp
you know we had uh…we had people like Christianity there they come to our
house they and help us. So, it’s only polite for me to you know help them back.
So, yup.
MG: K.
BH: Um…sorry I’m just really curious about this guitar. Um… do people have guitars
in the refugee camps?
AWI: I can answer that. Yes.
BH: Was there a lot of music there?
AWI: Yes.
BH: Like what kinds of music? Was it like um…popular songs? I don’t know like
maybe American songs? Or was it like its traditional?
AWI: It’s mostly either Burmese songs or Karen songs. Like the...you know, like the top
ten songs. [conversation in Karen] I’m doing it. Well, yeah they…we have lot of
songs and going back to the Christmas thing you like know, like in a refugee
camp when there’s like people going to house to house to sings there’s just gonna
be lots of people kinda follow up. You know kinda join the group to do the same
thing. So.
[laughing]
BH: It sounds like a good time.
AWI: Right.
[36:10]
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WV: Um…I’m just kind of curious who is the man in that photo up on the wall in that
chair?
AWI: On the left?
WV: Uh…uh, the bigger one. The guy in the…what looks like brown robes.
WVI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: Its what his name is Thaminya. He is a…a… a highly…everybody knows person
in Buddhist religions.
WV: Okay.
AWI: And he’s… he’s the monk in Burma and he’s rally um…you know. But there’s
just I guess, so many things that happen to him that are miracle or something.
Like, I don’t know if this trues…truth or not it maybe a myth, but like when he
die. Well, he’s dead already and, but his…his fingernails are still growing. So, it’s
just weird. I guess you know he just kind of have supernatural power or
something and may people Buddhist…. Yeah. And it is true right. This particular
person you know he…he’s still in Burma although he died many, many years ago.
His corpse is still there and it’s not being… how do I say it?
BH: It’s not decomposed?
AWI: It’s not decomposing. Yeah. It’s not.
WV: Did they preserve it? Like, did they do anything to…?
AWI: Like they probably. Nobody knows whether they preserve it or not. It’s under
military control and nobody knows. Like government control. I think they
probably did. Come on. [laughing] K. Yeah.
[38:04]
BH: I have one more question. This is something I’ve been curious about cuz it sounds
like in the refugee camps um…you can meet with a lot of people. There are a lot
of people around. So, um…did you have a lot of friends in the refugee camp?
People that you would meet with a lot?
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BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: Yes. I had lots of friends in refugee camp. Yeah.
BH: Are there any that came here to the United States as well?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: Yes, but they’re not in Utah. They’re in different states within the Unites States.
So.
BH: Are you able to keep in contact with any of them?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: Yes, um…we kinda...we kinda call each other you know. Friends to friends just
like everybody would do. But, mostly what we all concern about: How…how is
life doing over there? But, everybody wants to go back home. So, basically.
BH: Back home to Burma?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
AWI: Yes, to Burma. But, in Karen State particularly. To that state, yeah.
BH: Cool. Thank you.
AWI: Good?
MG: Thank you.
AW: Thank you.
[End recording-39:52]]]> Aye Win]]> Van de Water, Wes; 1988]]> Chit Moe]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Gill, Meagan]]> Gill, Meagan]]> transcripts;]]> application/pdf]]> 146517 Bytes]]> eng; kar]]> Text;]]> Karen, Burma, Thailand]]> Agricultural extension work--Utah; Agricultural extension work--Publications; Agriculture--Economic aspects--Utah; Cattle--Marketing--Utah;]]> Extension Work; Publications; Agriculture; Marketing; Cattle; Economics;]]> Bailey, DeeVon, 1953-;]]> Utah State University. Cooperative Extension Service; United States. Office of Cooperative Extension Work;]]> application/pdf;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Utah, United States, http://sws.geonames.org/5549030;]]> 20th century; 1980-1989;]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho)--United States;]]> Baker, F. S.]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> SCAMSS0491Bx001Fd17-001.pdf]]> Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho); Utah; Idaho; United States; Uinta-Wasatch-Cache National Forest;]]> 20th century; 1920-1929;]]> Cache Valley (Utah and Idaho)--History--19th century; Logan (Utah)--History; Mormon pioneers--Utah--Logan; Mormons--Utah--Logan;]]> Ballard, Henry, 1832-1908; Smith, Ralph, 1835-1914;]]> Daines, F. D. (Franklin David);]]> image/jpeg;]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> SCAMSS0046Bx004Fd129-001.pdf]]> Logan (Utah); Cache County (Utah); Cache Valley (Utah and Idaho); Utah; United States;]]> 1850-1859; 1860-1869;]]> Finances; Becker Brewing and Malting Company;]]> Becker Brewing and Malting Company;]]> Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> application/pdf;]]> 1312407 Bytes]]> eng;]]> Text;]]> Ogden, Utah]]>