Refugees, families, Immigration & culture, social justice]]> Tun Lay, 1954-]]> Gill, Meagan]]> Chit Moe]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Hanks, Bethany, 1989]]> oral histories (document genre);]]> audio/mp3]]> 55056796 Bytes]]> eng; kar]]> Sound;]]> Burma, Thailand, Salt Lake City, Logan (Utah)]]> Refugees, families, Immigration & culture, social justice]]> Valley
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CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET
Interviewee: Tun Lay
Present: Tun Lay, Bethany Hanks, Chit Moe, Wes Van de Water, Meagan Gill
Place of Interview: Tun Lay’s home in Logan, Utah
Date of Interview: May 16, 2015
Language(s): Pwo Karen; English
Translation:
Interviewer: Bethany Hanks
Interpreter: Chit Moe
Recordist: Wes Van de Water
Photographer: Meagan Gill
Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-18RL
broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic microphone
Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe with PowerPlayer foot pedal.
Transcribed by: Susan Gross, May 17, 2015
Transcript Proofed by: Bethany Hanks, May 18, 2015
Brief Description of Contents: Tun Lay describes his life as a Karen refugee. He talks about
his life in Burma during war, and the hardships placed on him by the Burmese military in trying
to earn a living as a farmer. He explains how he escaped from Burma to Thailand refugee camps,
and how he eventual brought his wife and child to live with him there. Tun Lay recounts his
experiences in various refugee camps (including fleeing villages burned by Burmese military, his
religious path, and family), and also how he eventually came to the United States (first Salt Lake
City, Utah; followed by Logan, Utah). He discusses how he came to live in Cache Valley, Utah,
and how he has adjusted to living and working in the United States.
Reference: BH = Bethany Hanks
BHI = Bethany Hanks’ words interpreted by translator
TL = Tun Lay
TLI = Tun Lay’s words interpreted by translator
WV = Wes Van de Water
WVI = Wes Van de Water’s words interpreted by translator
MG = Meagan Gill
MGI = Meagan Gill’s words interpreted by translator
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NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and false starts and
stops in conversations are not included in transcribed. All additions to transcript are noted with
brackets.
TAPE TRANSCRIPTION
[00:01]
BH: Okay. Today is May 16, 2015, and this is Bethany Hanks with Wes Van de Water and
Meagan Gill. We are students at Utah State University, and we are working on a project
called “Voices: Refugees in Cache Valley.” Right now we are visiting Tun Lay in his
home, in Logan, Utah, and Chit Moe is our translator.
So, first of all thank you, Tun Lay, for letting us come here into your home.
BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.]
BH: First, I would like to know what is your full name, and your birth year?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: My name is Tun Lay and I was born in 1958.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Oh, 1954. I’m sorry, 1954.
BH: Okay. Thank you.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And May 28th, 1954.
BH: Okay, thank you. And what languages do you speak?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: He speaks Karen, Pwo Karen and Burmese, but right now we are speaking Pwo Karen.
BH: Okay; so not Burmese?
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TLI: No, it’s not Burmese.
BH: Okay; very cool. Can you tell me about your family?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Yes.
BH: So, do you have other family members?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: He has a family here, but not relatives.
BH: Oh, okay. So you have family here, but not relatives? So like you have a brother and
sister, or I don’t know if I quite understand?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: I have a wife [laughs] –
BH: Oh, okay.
TLI: And three children – one is married (and he is in Arizona), and the other two live with
me.
BH: Wow, so they live here?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Yes, two live with him, and the other one is in Arizona.
BH: Okay. Were your children – were they born here?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
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TLI: No, none.
BH: None? Where did you live before?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Before I was in Burma in the city called Tun Aung; the name of the city is Tun Aung.
[Translator speaking to interviewer] Should I spell it?
BH: Yeah, how do you spell that?
TLI: Tun Aung (I think): T-U-N A-U-N-G. Tun Aung.
[Translator speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: P-U, actually. It’s P-U.
BH: P-U-N?
TLI: No, just P-U.
BH: Oh, just P-U?
[04:02]
TLI: Pu Aung.
BH: Pu Aung.
TLI: That’s the name of the city.
BH: Wow. Can you tell me a little about this city?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Ever since I was born in that city, I grew up; when I got old I married to my wife, then
we moved to Thailand and now we’re in America. But I can tell you step by step of the
process of what I’ve been through.
BH: I would love to hear, step by step, the process.
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BHI: [Repeating remark in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Yeah, he is going to explain it step by step.
BH: Okay.
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So when I got married I had one kid.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So my occupation was being a farmer and raising cows and other animals.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Me living in the United States, there are difficulties here.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Oh, it’s still in Burma, actually (my mistake).
BH: In Burma?
TLI: Yeah. So we faced difficulties in Pu Aung, in Burma.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So in Burma there are difficulties, meaning we were in fear of Burmese military, and we
couldn’t do work freely.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So between Burmese military and the Karen military, they were in war and we were
really scared.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So we couldn’t do our work when there was a war because the Burmese military would
come to our village and take us as porters – you know, forcing us to do work for them.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
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TLI: So if they couldn’t find us, they would go to our work place and kind of drag us to where
they wanted to take us; if not, they would come at night and just force us – just drag us
out of our house.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Living there was really difficult, and I couldn’t do any work; so moving around and I
ended up in Thailand.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: I was just following strangers, being stranded, and that’s how I got to Thailand.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So living in Thailand many, many years I have learned and found the U.N., which is a
great organization which helps the refugees: they give food and shelter.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
[08:39]
TLI: So from what I see from what I learned, I wanted my wife to come to Thailand in a
refugee camp. So I started telling her to do the same process, you know, asking strangers
for a ride, being stranded; and that’s how she also got to a Thailand refugee camp.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So living there many, many years I had two children.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So living there for many, many years again, we were given like a photo ID for living in a
refugee camp (like a permanent resident thing).
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: [Responding to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So after a few years we learned that the UN were telling people that they could go to
other countries (like United States, Australia). And then they told us that we had to fill
out an application, and we did it.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
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TLI: So many people in a refugee camp came to such other countries, and I was also one of
them.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So in June it will be –
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: In June 11th of this year it will be –
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: It will be seven years of my family living in Utah, in the United States.
BH: Wow.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Living here is very, very peaceful, happy for me and my family; I have work, I have
food, I mean, there is nothing to worry about (like being free, peaceful), you know, being
free.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: I am very, very happy, and I am very glad I am in this state and in this country.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So everything I was born living in Burma was really difficult, and there was many
difficulties; and there are many, many things that I have faced that I just can’t talk about
it all at the same time because there are just many, many difficulties.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And my family and I are very, very thankful to the UN, which they provided us food and
shelter; we are very, very thankful to them.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Yeah, being in Utah is the same thing: many people help us out, you know, getting us a
house (for example), and yeah –
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
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TLI: So when I first came to the United States I was in Salt Lake for a year, and now I am in
Logan for almost six years.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
[12:25]
TLI: And I am very happy for being in Logan, and I have a job in JBS, and I have worked
there for almost seven years.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Just like that.
BH: Wow. So you mentioned going from Burma to Thailand, and it sounds like you would
take rides from strangers. Can you describe a little bit more about maybe what the
journey was like going from Burma to Thailand?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So number one key is between Burma and Thailand, there were a lot of people who were
like transporter (I would say): they would do business across each country –
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Okay, some people would hire other people – I mean, some people would go to Thailand,
buy a lot of food, and then they would hire people and take it back to Burma and sell it
there.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: I was one of the people who got hired. I was carrying bags, you know, back and forth and
that’s how I got to Thailand.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And when I got to Thailand I saw Thai people, you know, they were hiring people to do
work, and I was one of the workers in there as well.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So from there, working there for a few months – as I was crossing from Thailand to
Burma, I saw a refugee camp (which I also heard about it), and that’s when I started
going to the refugee camp asking people, maybe to see if there is anyone I know, and
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people were telling me that, “It’s better here,” you know, “we have food; we are stuffed.
You should come and live over here.”
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And that’s when I tell my wife and my child to also come up to the refugee camp to live
with me.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And living there many, many years – that’s when that organization, they were you know,
taking applications; and that’s how I got here.
BH: Okay; wow. After you fill out an application, is it difficult to get into the camp – the
refugee camp?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
[16:16]
TLI: So there was no application to get to the refugee camp. What you do is that you go talk to
– so in the refugee camp there is a certain section where they put you in – you just go talk
to the leader, just talk to him or her, and then he would like take you to another person
who is like the leader for the whole camp. And then that’s when you started telling your
story, and that’s when they can tell whether you’re lying, or whether you’re telling the
truth and how difficult your life was; and that’s how they accept me to live in the camp.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So why they were asking me questions, you know, how my life was, I have to tell the
truth and later on they would have to, you know, figure out whether that’s the truth or
not. If it’s true, then they let me live in there; if not, then no.
BH: Okay. Was it difficult for your wife and your child to also come over?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: [Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
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TLI: There was no difficulty for my wife and child to come to the refugee camp because I was
already there, and all I had to do was tell the leader – tell him that my wife is coming, and
he would be like, “Okay, that’s fine.” But the difficulty was for my wife and child to get
to the refugee camp – that was one of the difficulties. Because fortunately my wife speaks
Burmese, so sometimes she would speak in Burmese and people would think, “Oh, she’s
Burmese, just let her go.” And sometimes the military would think that, “Oh, this is a
very pitiful family, just let them go.” And that’s how they got to the refugee camp.
BH: Wow.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
[Tun Lay’s daughter and one of his sons enter the room. His daughter greets everyone.]
BH: Hello.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So for me and my family, on my way to the refugee camp, we have met with Karen
military, and they were very nice, very generous; they helped us –
[Tun Lay’s daughter drops something on the floor; she apologizes.]
TLI: You know, they help us get to another place and they were really nice.
BH: Okay. So was it dangerous at all – that trip from Burma to Thailand? I’m just wondering
if – because it sounds like you rely a lot on strangers – is that difficult to do, is that scary?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
[19:56]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So one thing is that once you reach the border between Burma and Thailand, it’s easier –
you can just walk to the refugee camp with nothing to worry about.
BH: Okay.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Once you reach Thailand border – you can either walk there or take a ride from the Thai
military, and you can just pay them $5 or $10.
BH: Wow. So can you describe for me a little what your surroundings were in the refugee
camp – like what it looked like?
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BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So when I was in the refugee camp there was a city called Kue Bong [??] (I don’t know
how to spell that), but Kue Bong –
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So you know, like I said, there was a city really close to the refugee camp; in that camp –
we lived there for a few years, and then Burmese military were coming and they burned
the whole village down.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And then we started, after the Burmese military were coming to burn our refugee camp,
we moved to another camp, which is called –
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: [Speaking to the interviewee in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Kue Bong was the first refugee camp that I was in, and after a few years the Burmese
military were coming, burned down the village; and then I got to another town which is
called –
[Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Kwe Ka Lu [??]
TL: Kwe Ka Lu
TLI: Kwe Ka Lu. K-something. Got it?
BH: Kwe Ka Lu
TLI: Um-hmm.
[Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
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TLI: And living there for one and a half years, the Burmese military were there again, and they
burned the village down and we started –
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So after when the Burmese military were coming and, you know, burning the village
down we got help from the UN. They took us over the mountains, and we started living
on a mountain – it’s called Umpium camp right now. A lot of Karen people were there as
well; it is on a mountain.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So I can still remember the year that I got to the Umpium camp – it was 1999.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So starting from 1999, I lived in the Umpium camp all the way until 2008; and that’s
when I started coming to the United States.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: June 11th, 2008, was the date I departed from the refugee camp.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And I lived in Salt Lake for one year, and now I’m here in Logan for six years.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Yep, that’s pretty much it.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Living here is really a good thing for me, you know; you can go anywhere you want, you
have a job. I’m really happy.
[24:40]
BH: That’s good. Let’s see – so can you tell me a little about your first months here, in the
United States; and maybe the problems and the difficulties, but maybe also the good
things that you saw?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
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TLI: When I first arrived in the United States my family, we were put in a house (like in an
apartment), and people were saying, “Later on, if you guys cannot pay the rent, you guys
will be kicked out.” And we were really worried, you know, and that was one of the fears
that we had in our first month. And after a few months we had to do like a community
service at CCS (in Salt Lake) where we had to go and give food to the people (I think
they are the homeless, I think that’s the service). And after a few months I heard about
the JBS and I came here, got a job, and that’s when I asked my family to move here.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: [Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So you know, in that first month there wasn’t a lot to do; but on the second month, like I
said, I had to do service at CCS (it was fun), and I had to do it two days a week, and the
other two days was me going to school to learn English.
[27:59]
BH: Wow. So when you came to the United States, did you have any prior knowledge of
English?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: No, not at all; my wife, my children – nobody knows English.
BH: Wow.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And I only know how to read Burmese, specifically.
BH: Wow. So did that make it difficult to interact with people when you first moved here?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: It wasn’t really difficult because I was speaking with other Karen communities; and if I
wanted to talk to an English speaker we had it translated.
BH: Okay.
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TLI: So there wasn’t any difficulties.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So if we wanted to go buy groceries, we would ask someone who came here before us,
you know, who has a car – and we would ask them to take us to buy food, groceries.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: [Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So if we needed help with anything we would go to IRC (it’s also in Salt Lake) and they
have translators over there, you know; they have people that can help you with what you
need.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Like I said, if we need help we can go to IRC, CCS or another place – it’s called DWS
(it’s Department of Workforce Services); and they also have translators over there, you
know. We would like ask someone who came before us to take us over there, or
sometimes DWS will come and pick us up personally.
BH: Wow.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So everybody surrounding me here – like all the Americans – they were really nice; they
helped us in many ways.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And that is why I am living here really happy, my family is really happy.
BH: That’s good.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
BH: So the reason why you moved to Logan was to work at JBS?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
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TLI: Yes, that is correct.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So you know, when I was hired at JBS I worked there for one year. And then after that I
went back to Salt Lake and I told my family to move with me to Logan, in this apartment
(this house), and I haven’t moved ever since.
BH: Wow. So I wonder if you could describe for me sort of the differences in food? Maybe
some things that you used to eat in Burma, that maybe you can’t find here, or maybe you
can? Maybe just a little bit about the food of your culture.
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So I have no problem eating American food here – it’s better than what I used to eat back
there.
BH: Okay.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Yeah, there are more food here than back in the refugee camp.
BH: So what kind of food was available in the refugee camp?
[33:06]
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: There are many, many foods. One is rice – they gave us oil, and beans, and –
[Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And peppers – chili; yeah, a lot of food – like food that is very sufficient for each family.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: They gave us food like once a month.
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BH: Okay. So what kinds of food do you like to eat now that you’re here, in the United
States?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: He said there are many; there is a lot of food in America (like chicken, fish) – I just, I like
everything.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] [Laughs]
TLI: There are a lot of food, like – yeah, I just like everything.
BH: Okay. So I wanted to ask how people respond when they find out you’re from Burma? I
know you said in Salt Lake the people were really friendly, and so I just want to see if
that’s still the case, or if people respond differently?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So when I got to the United States, I mean even when someone asked me where I’m
from, “Burma.”
“Yeah, okay.” There wasn’t any negative thing.
BH: Okay, that’s good. Can you tell me a little about your home here, and how it’s different
from your home in Burma?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So it’s really different here, houses – to describe it, it’s perfect, you know. But in Burma
it’s very different, you have to build your own home; you have to use like bamboo to
build it. And you have to make your own walls, but they’re not tight walls and wind can
go through any time. It was really different from here.
BH: Wow. What would you like people in Logan to know about you, or your family, or your
ethnic group?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
[37:22]
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TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: He is not very clear on the question.
BH: Let’s see if I can ask it a different way. Is there anything that you would like to share with
the people around here that maybe they don’t know, or you wish they knew?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So I have a different message, you know: I want people to know – before that, I believe
in God, and I want people to know that one day everybody will have a chance to live in
heaven.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: [Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So I kind of asked him to make sure he understand that question, and –
BH: Um-hmm?
TLI: He said that there isn’t anything that he really wants to share because he feels that other
people, you know, (other American people) I’m sure they have faced many difficulty as
well (getting here) – maybe back in the day or something. So it’s probably the same
story.
BH: Okay. Would you ever be interested in going back to Burma?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: I’m very happy here. I do feel like going back, but I don’t want to go back because my
parents, my brothers – I don’t know where they are; in Burma, I don’t know where
they’re at and I don’t want to go back.
BH: Okay. What are you most proud of?
TLI: Here, or?
BH: Yeah, I would say what are you most proud of out of all of this: your experiences and
traveling?
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BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: I’m very proud, you know, to live each day being healthy and being happy day after day.
So yeah, that’s what I’m really proud of.
[41:20]
BH: Thank you. And do you have any dreams for the future – either for yourself, or for your
children?
BHI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: For me, my family, my children, my family, my wife – for my family – I don’t have any
dreams for us, but I do believe in God and I pray for us (for me and for my family) you
know, to be healthy, to stay happy. Yeah.
BH: Okay. I think those are all of my questions. But before we end, I just want to see if any of
my colleagues have one as well.
BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Yeah, you guys can ask questions.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: If I know the answer, I will answer it; but if I don’t, I don’t.
WV: I’m just kind of curious who plays the guitar in the family – is that yours?
WVI: [Repeating the question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Yeah, I used to – every Sunday when I pray with my family – I used to play the guitar
every Sunday.
WV: Nice.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
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TLI: According to my religion, my Bible, it said that when you’re praying, you know, when
you’re praying and asking for God’s help, you must play a song (you know, play with the
guitar).
BH: Wow.
TLI: And so I’m doing it every Sunday.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: I believe that – I know that we can’t see God, but I know God can help us in a way.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And how do I know this is because I am very healthy every day, and I have been doing
work here for almost seven years and I am very healthy – and I know that God is helping
me.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And at the same time I want to tell people that God is helping us, but if they want to
listen, then I can tell them; if you don’t want to listen, then I don’t have to tell them.
BH: Do you have any questions?
MG: Yeah. What is your favorite thing about Cache Valley? What is your favorite thing to do
here?
MGI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: He doesn’t know what his favorite thing is. Is there an example you can give?
MG: Hiking, camping –
MGI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
[45:37]
TLI: No, I haven’t done that – hiking or camping; I’ve just been driving around the city, going
back to Salt Lake and eating at restaurants sometimes.
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TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.] [Laughs]
TLI: Yeah, I’ve never been hiking.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: But I would like to go one day.
BH: So actually, I thought of a couple more questions – if that’s okay?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Yeah, that’s fine.
TL: [Laughs]
BH: Okay. So you mentioned the guitar, and playing music is an important part of your
religious observance – so I was just wondering if you could kind of describe your
religious community; sort of, things about your religion?
BHI: Community?
BH: Yeah
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: I know that every religion has different beliefs, and there are different ways how you can
pray to God; but my way is I read the Bible every day, and that’s how I understand God’s
word. I remember when I was in the refugee camp, you know, and living there for eight
years, I was going around to different religions, you know, listening to people giving
speeches. One day I met this priest, you know, he taught me many valuable things, and he
even asked me to be an heir priest – is that how you say it? Well, yeah.
BH: Like an apprentice?
TLI: Well to become the next priest.
BH: Okay; to be like the replacement after him?
TLI: Yes, yes. Yeah, he even asked me to become that – or if he has to go somewhere else,
you know, I’d be taking his position to do all the religious things in the church. Yeah.
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TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So there are lots of gods; Americans call him Jesus, but the thing is you need to know
which one is real, you know, which one is the real God.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So whether there are many gods, or just one God – if anybody want to listen, I can tell
them the story.
BH: If you want to share.
BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So there is only one God that I believe in, you know; he cannot be sick, or he can heal –
he can get all or any other things. Before anybody (any human being) exists, he lived here
before, and he created the Earth, trees, everything.
[50:20]
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Another type of God is who can die, who heals, and it is called –
[Speaking to interviewee in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And in Burmese it is called [Pwo Karen word]
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And the easier way to say is Pe Synga Piya[??]
BH: Pe Synga –
TLI: Piya. Pe Synga Piya. Yeah.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And he is a God that can die, and you know, and can’t heal people. And he is the God
that the particular God created. Do you understand that?
BH: He would –
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TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So the one person God – he created another person who is also God, but he can die.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: If it’s God Jesus – there is only one Jesus.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And he is everybody – for everybody’s God.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: He can’t die, you know, he can’t get old – he is the only one.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: There is a guarantee, you know, that if anybody believe that there is God, that one
particular person will be in heaven.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So if you believe God, you know, you have to follow his words; you have to read the
Bible, you have to do what the Bible says.
BH: So I have just one more question.
BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: That’s fine.
BH: You seem very interested in religion, and so I was wondering if that was a part of your
life before you came to the refugee camp, or if that’s something that you really became
interested in once you got to the refugee camps?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
[53:11]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
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TLI: So I was really, really interested in God in the year 1999, and that was when I got to the
refugee camp called Umpium; and that was when I was really interested in religion.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: So in the refugee camp there are a lot of people who just go around the camp, you know,
telling stories, sharing God’s word, you know.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And I would go all over the place to listen to their speeches, you know; it can be night, or
it can be day.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Why I wanted to know that is because I believe God is good, and you know –
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And you know, like I say, I started listening to those speeches every day, and that’s
where I learned knowledge, you know, about religion.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And I understood a lot of words that – well, the speakers’ word.
TL: [Laughs]
BH: Very neat. So there were not very many people in Burma who spoke of these different
religions? I guess I’m just wondering why it was so prevalent in the refugee camp – was
it the same way in Burma?
BHI: [Repeating question in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: No; I didn’t see any in Burma.
BH: Wow.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Yeah, I started seeing it in the refugee camp.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
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TLI: So when I was in Burma, I heard of such religions, but I had never seen it.
BH: Okay.
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: When I first got to the refugee camp, you know, I was asked, “Do you know God? Do
you know the real one, you know, the one that can heal, the one that can’t get old?” So
I’m like, “Well God is good, so yes – I want to know.”
TL: [Speaking in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: And now that I know a lot about God, you know, I do want to share it with people, to
those who want to listen; but if you don’t want to listen, that’s okay.
BH: So I think we are almost out of time, unfortunately – because we only have so much time
that we can record on here. But it has been fascinating to listen to you.
BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.] [Laughs]
TLI: Thank you.
BH: Thank you very much.
BHI: [Repeating in Pwo Karen.]
TL: [Responding in Pwo Karen.]
TLI: Thank you.
BH: So I think that’s the end of the interview.
BHI: [Repeating statement in Pwo Karen.]
[End recording – 57:20]]]> Tun Lay, 1954-]]> Gill, Meagan]]> Chit Moe]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Hanks, Bethany, 1989]]> Gross, Susan]]> transcripts;]]> application/pdf]]> 182560 Bytes]]> eng; kar]]> Text;]]> Burma, Thailand, Salt Lake City, Logan (Utah)]]> Pyo Nwe, 1978]]> Gill, Meagan]]> Chit Moe]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Hanks, Bethany, 1989]]> oral histories (document genre);]]> audio/mp3]]> 51338140 Bytes]]> eng; kar]]> Sound;]]> Burma (Karen State); Thailand (Mela Camp); Salt Lake City (Utah); Logan (Utah);]]> Valley
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CACHE VALLEY REFUGEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET
Interviewee: Pyo Nwe
Present: Pyo Nwe, Bethany Hanks, Chit Moe, Wes Van de Water, Meagan
Gill
Place of Interview: Pyo Nwe’s home in Logan, Utah
Date of Interview: May 18, 2015
Language(s): Karen; English
Translation:
Interviewer: Bethany Hanks
Interpreter: Chit Moe
Recordist: Wes Van de Water
Photographer: Meagan Gill
Recording Equipment: Tascam DR-100mk11 linear PCM recorder; Senal ENG-
18RL broadcast-quality omnidirectional dynamic
microphone
Transcription Equipment: Express Scribe
Transcribed by: Bethany Hanks, May 24, 2015
Transcript Proofed by: Bethany Hanks, May 25, 2015
Brief Description of Contents: Pyo Nwe describes her life in a Karen refugee camp
before she came to the United States. She explains what brought her to the Karen refugee
camp and what it was like living there, getting married there, and having children there.
She also describes the changes and difficulties that she and her family faced (and still
face) when they left the refugee camp and came to the United States.
Reference: BH = Bethany Hanks
BHI = Bethany Hanks interpreted by translator
PN = Pyo Nwe
PNI = Pyo Nwe interpreted by translator
WV = Wes Van de Water
WVI = Wes Van de Water interpreted by translator
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NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and false
starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcribed. All additions to
transcript are noted with brackets.
TAPE TRANSCRIPTION
[00:01]
BH: Okay, today is May 18, 2015. And this is Bethany Hanks with Wes Van de Water
on audio and Meagan Gill taking photographs. We’re all students at Utah State
University and are working on a project called “Voices: Refugees in Cache
Valley.” Right now we’re visiting Pyo Nwe at her home in Logan, Utah. And her
little son is with us, who is 8 months old, and Chit Moe is translating.
So, first we want to thank you Pyo Nwe for letting us come and speak with you.
So first, um, can I have you say your full name and birth year?
PN: Pyo Nwe Nwe
BH: Pyo Nwe Nwe?
PN: January 1st, 1978.
BH: Thank you.
PNI: Date of birth, January 1st, 1978.
BH: Okay, thank you. And what languages do you speak?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [laughs]
[responding in Karen]
PNI: I speak Karen and Burmese.
BH: Thank you. Can you tell me a little about your family?
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BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: In Utah, or?
BH: Um, if you can talk about maybe your family here in Utah and also if you have
family over in Karen too?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
[2:07]
[Baby breathing loudly]
PNI: Um, my family, we all lived in refugee camps and then we all moved to Utah,
which is, we were in Salt Lake and we came in March 3rd, 2008.
[2:25]
[Baby makes noises]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: We lived there for one year in Salt Lake City, and we moved here in 2009, and
we’ve been here ever since.
BH: He likes the microphone, doesn’t he?
[laughs]
So the refugee camp where you were at – where was that exactly?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: It is called Mela Camp.
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BH: Mela Camp? And do you have any idea where the location of that is in Thailand?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: We didn’t know. It is close to the border, and I know that it’s in Thailand, but I
don’t know whether it’s the south or which states or province it’s in. We just
know that it’s a refugee camp.
BH: Okay, and did you say how long you were there for?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: 1997 to 2008.
PNI: From 1997 to 2008.
BH: Wow, so then did you grow up quite a lot in this refugee camp?
BHI: Like, did she grow up in refugee camp?
BH: Yeah, like there as a young child and maybe as a teenager.
PN: Yeah, teenager.
BH: Yeah?
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yes, I was sixteen years old back then.
BH: Okay. What was it like for you, being there as a young person in the refugee
camp?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
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PNI: Well, at first I lived in Burma. I was poor – my family was poor, and from what I
heard, refugee is a better place than Burma. At refugee camp they have school,
and their schooling is free. So I decided to go to refugee camp for education
purposes.
BH: Okay, so what kinds of education did they offer in the refugee camp?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Well, the education in the refugee camp was – it’s not so great like in America,
but it’s better than Burma though.
[5:59]
[Baby breathes loudly]
BH: Okay, what kinds of things did you learn in the refugee camp?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: I don’t know if I learned much in the refugee camp because at first, coming to a
refugee camp was to study—
[Baby makes noises]
—but then, things changes, you know. Different circumstances occurred, and it
just changes.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: And I didn’t get to learn.
PN: [responding in Karen]
[Baby makes noises]
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PNI: However, I did help out the school and the teachers with a few things; just helping
out for a few years.
BH: Okay. Did you have any brothers or sisters with you, or your parents?
PN: Yeah, [responding in Karen]
PNI: I have three brothers, I mean –
PN: Three sisters.
PNI: – three sisters. One is in Thailand and the other is in Burma, in Karen State.
BH: Okay, we’ll get him some toys huh; let him play.
[laughs]
So are your siblings, are they still, you said in Thailand and Burma? Are they still
over there? Yeah? So, they weren’t in the refugee camp with you? Or –
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
[8:47]
PNI: No, they didn’t live with me in the refugee camp, but my older sister (the one
that’s in Thailand) she has a daughter who has a disease, and in order to cure the
disease, there isn’t a hospital in the refugee camp. There is, but it’s not very big.
So, they had to go to Thailand to work over there and to get her daughter the cure.
BH: Do you remember much about your life before being in the refugee camp?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yeah, a lot.
BH: Yeah? What kinds of things do you remember?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
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PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Well, I remember lots of things, but which one are you wanting to know more
about?
BH: Yeah, let’s see, I guess things about your family – maybe your daily, kind of what
life would have been like for you on just a regular day? Or maybe like the sort of
the political situation, if it was dangerous at all.
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: [speaking in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
[11:53]
PNI: Well, I do remember like from 1989 or 1990, well – not before 1990. I think I was
about 9 or 10 years old back then. We had, like I said, three sisters, and I lived
with my parents. Well, my biggest goal was to go to school you know, to have a
better school for me. Back then it was really difficult because the Burmese
military were coming and forcing people to become porters, and my dad was one
of them. After he has gone to do the porter thing, and then he lost his leg, like
during the war, and he couldn’t work any more after that. It was a really
challenging for my family. After a few months or a few days (I can’t remember)
my older sister, she kind of left us and she went to Thailand.
BH: Wow, thank you. So was education, then, I know you said – you mentioned
education earlier, and you wanted to get a better education. Were there other
reasons for relocating to the refugee camp?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yes, I wanted to go to school like really bad back then. In my village, my family
was the poorest out of everybody, and then in order to go to school there we had
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to have like a good umbrella, good shoes, good clothes – and my parents, they
couldn’t afford to buy any of that. And I kind of felt embarrassed, I mean, to go to
school there, so I though it’d be better to go to school in a refugee camp where
everything is free, you know. But then when I got to the refugee camp, I got
married – so I didn’t really get to go to school.
BH: So you met your husband, then, in the refugee camp? What was that like? Was
that a good place, I guess, to meet lots of people?
PN: [responding in Karen]
[15:33]
PNI: I think it’s a good place to meet with lots of people, but back then I was kind of
young. I was still young, and I had lots of thoughts: there isn’t anyone to support
me; my family isn’t here either.
[Baby makes spitting noise]
I guess that’s how I though about getting married you know – to find my
companion who, we can maybe support each other now. It’s just the thought that
came by.
BH: Very neat. So, your husband in here with you now? Did you all come over, did
you leave the refugee camp together? Yeah?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: Yes.
BH: How difficult was it to, I guess, go through the process of coming to another
country? Was that difficult or was it fairly easy?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Well, in Burma, it’s difficult there.
[Baby rattles toy and breathes loudly for a few seconds]
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In Thailand it’s the same thing. And here it’s still difficult.
BH: Yeah?
PNI: I don’t think that’s answering your question. Everywhere is difficult.
BH: Uh-huh. So, I guess, another way to ask would be is it difficult to gain entry as a
refugee into the United States?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
[phone buzzes]
PN: [responding in Karen]
[Baby coughs]
PN: Sorry.
BH: Oh, that’s okay.
[17:58]
[Pyo Nwe moves play set nearby]
Children like to be active, I know. I have nieces and nephews, and they’re, yeah.
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: I think it’s a fairly easy process to get to United States, you know, compared to
people who came here with visa or other things. Because we were refugees, then
it was easier.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: To get here, we received lots of help, you know. People helped us step by step to
get here.
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BH: Okay, thank you. So in the refugee camps, did they celebrate any holidays or have
any special religious days?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yeah, there are.
BH: Yeah, like, can you give us an example of one of those special holidays and
maybe how it was celebrated?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
[19:49]
PNI: The biggest thing would be, we have Karen New Year, and we have Burmese
New Year. For Karen New Year, in the beginning we had like a – I would say like
camp leaders, lots of leaders, you know. They will go up on the stage and just
give speeches.
BH: Wow.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yeah, Karen has it’s own culture, and Burmese has its own culture.
BH: So, what’s the main difference, I guess, between Karen New Year and Burmese
New Year?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Because I’m not as – I guess, I don’t have a good experience, like such leaders,
but what I can tell is that for Burmese New Year, they celebrate it on April. For
Karen, they do it on December.
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BH: Okay, so it’s mainly the time then.
[Baby coughs]
Wow. Thank you.
[baby makes noises]
So, when you were in the refugee camp, did you get any idea of what the people
in Thailand thought of the refugees in the camps?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
[Baby coughs]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Well, I don’t know about other people, but for me, you know, I was really scared
of the Thai military. Thai, yeah. Because back then if we had, say we have a
meeting, say don’t go out of the camp today, then I will never go out of the camp
because if the Thai military captures you, they will send you somewhere else.
Another example is my husband who worked outside the camp –
[Baby coughs]
He was chased by Thai military lots of times, but fortunately he escaped every
single time he was chased.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: What makes me more scared is that when I went back to Thailand one day, I saw
the Burmese military. They were taking people, you know. They were taking
people to – I don’t know where they were taking them, but they were capturing
people, so it makes me more scared.
BH: Wow.
PN: [responding in Karen]
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PNI: Yeah, for me, it was really scary, but I don’t know about other people.
BH: So, is that something that happens a lot – that maybe refugees leave the camp,
they sneak out or something, and then they’re captured by Thai military and taken
somewhere else?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
[24:44]
PNI: Yeah, I think it –
[Baby bonks head]
Ooh.
BH: Oh no, is he okay?
[Baby cries]
PN: Oh.
BH: Is he okay?
[Baby cries]
Head bonk.
[baby cries]
PN: Sorry.
BH: Oh, that’s okay.
PNI: He wants to sleep now. He’s feeling sleepy. Well, I don’t know about now, but
back fourteen years ago, I would say it happened a lot because I have seen it
myself. I lived close to the Thai military gate, I guess, their area, I kind of lived
close to where they lived, and what I saw was there was this –
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[phone makes noise]
– there was this woman, I would say
[phone makes noise]
PN: [laughs]
PNI: Sorry.
BH: That’s okay
PNI: Okay, what happened was this Thai military guy – he went out, he found a
woman, he took her to the camp, not to the camp but to their place, and I lived
really close to it. And they were doing some horrible things to her, I think. I heard
the noise and everything, but I couldn’t help. I was so scared. So, I think it
happened a lot.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Well, at the same time, not all the Thai military are bad. Some are really good
people as well. I remember when I was pregnant, I saw Thai military who was
actually helping me with stuff, you know. He bought me food, so that was really
nice.
BH: Did you had some children while you were in the refugee camp.
PN: Four.
[laughs]
BH: Four?
PNI: She has four.
BH: So, four. So, this one with you, he is number four?
PN: Five.
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BH: Number five, okay. Was that difficult? Either medically—I mean, did they have,
um, places where you know, there was a doctor around to help you give birth?
And then you know, raising the children in the refugee camp?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yeah, there were hospitals in the refugee camps. If I were pregnant – if I were
close to giving birth, I could go to hospital and give birth there. But what’s sad is
that, like, my sister or people who lived in Burma, they, there was no way they
could afford to go to the hospital in Burma, so it was kind of sad.
BH: Yeah.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: I think, personally for me, I had a better life than my sisters had.
[28:30]
BH: How different is it now, raising a child here in America compared with in the
refugee camp?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Well, before –
[Baby touches microphone]
– in the refugee camp, yeah, it was different raising a child compared to here and
in the refugee camp. Back there, I had four kids, my husband would go out and
work, and if he finds a job then he will bring us some money so we can buy good
food, good meal. But here, it’s like, he has a job, and it’s better than the refugee
camp, but here we have a different situation I guess. I’ve been here for seven
years, and I wanted to go to school, but because of a bad situation I just can’t go
to school here.
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BH: Is there anything that would help you be able to go to school here in the United
States?
PN: [responding in Karen]
[baby cries]
PNI: [speaking in Karen]
PN: [responds in Karen]
PNI: Well, before I was pregnant here in United States, I had a teacher, you know. She
would come and visit me and teach me English. So that was really nice, but she
moved to Colorado long ago. But now, I don’t expect to go to high school or
middle school. It’s not something I can handle; I know that very well. But I would
like a teacher who could come and teach me, because now that my children are
growing up, I have time to study; learn more English.
PN: [speaking in Karen]
[laughs]
BH: He’s cute. So I wanted to ask, although it sounds like you may have answered my
question already, but given the chance to go to school, what would you study?
Although it sounds like English is something that you would really like to learn,
but is there anything else?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
[33:06]
PNI: Well no. English is the main thing that I want to learn. However, I do want to
learn a lot of English so I can communicate on a daily basis. Let’s say if someone
were to ask me a question, so that I know the answer to that question, or I
understand that question so I can answer it.
BH: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so do you think learning English would make living in America
easier for you?
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BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Well, yeah, I think if I could understand a lot, but not a hundred percent, then I
guess it would help a lot, you know. Though it’s not a hundred percent, it would
help a lot.
BH: Yeah.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: And at the same time, my brain is not as good as American people, so it’s not like
I can really learn English. It’s not like I can learn English like a hundred percent,
does that make sense?
[Baby cries]
BH: I think if I understand what she’s meaning, you can translate it back and make
sure I’ve got this right, but, it’s difficult once you’re an adult and you’ve already
learned—
PNI: Mmm, yeah.
BH: one language—
PN: Yeah.
BH: it’s harder to learn another.
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yeah.
BH: Because I think the situation would be – if we were to go to Karen, I think we
would be in a similar situation.
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PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yeah, when I had a teacher, you know the one that moved to Colorado, back then,
I think I understood English, a lot, I guess. I understood English more than what I
understand now. Right now, I think I forgot lots of it, yeah.
PN: [laughs]
BH: Yeah. So, your first few months after leaving the refugee camp, you came to
America. What was that like for you and your family?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yeah, I think it was kind of a little bit challenging. When me and my family first
came to America, there weren’t a lot of Karen people, and we really didn’t know
a lot about America I guess. Well, at first, people were giving us those apple juice
– we thought it was oil, so we didn’t want to touch it. And then when they gave us
lotion, we didn’t know what it is, so we use it for our face because it smells nice,
right? If we wanted to say something, there weren’t any interpreters back then.
And if we wanted to go buy groceries, we didn’t even know where to go.
BH: Wow. So, what did you end up doing when you needed to buy groceries? Did you
end up – was there someone around who was also from Karen who helped?
PN: [responding in Karen]
[37:36]
PNI: Yeah, it wasn’t Karen people that helped my family. There weren’t many Karen
people like I said. It was people from the church. They pretty much helped us
with everything, I guess. Taking us to the hospital, you know, taking us to go
shopping, buying us stuff – yeah, from the church.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Oh, yeah, what I remember is that my oldest daughter – she had like a tooth pain
back here, the upper one, back here. We went to hospital, you know, and the
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doctor looked at it, but the doctor took one tooth out, but it was the one at the
bottom.
BH: Oh no.
PNI: But that one had cavities so it was okay, but the one that hurts was the one on top.
BH: So, it was on the top left?
PNI: Yeah, top.
BH: And he took out the bottom left.
PNI: The bottom left.
BH: Okay.
PN: [laughs]
[speaking in Karen]
PNI: I had to take my daughter to the hospital again to take the other one out, the upper
left one.
BH: How did you communicate that with the dentist, or the man who was working on
her mouth?
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: We were just using, I guess, sign language – kind of this, that. But we had people
from the church, like one person who took us to the dentist, but back then there
was no interpreters, so we can’t tell him what was going on. We just tried to show
him this and that.
BH: Yeah, with your hands?
PNI: Yeah, all without sound.
PN: [responding in Karen]
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PNI: I didn’t know it either, that she had a tooth that was hurt, but my daughter just
told me that it hurts. But thought the doctor already took, it was the one on the
bottom already, but it still hurts.
BH: So, this church that you mention that helped you? Is this the church that you, or
the religion that you take part of?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
[40:37]
PNI: It’s not my religion, that church, but they have a lot of people, you know. It
doesn’t matter whether you’re that – whether you come from that religion or not.
And they help a lot of Burmese and Karen refugees.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yeah, everybody who’s a refugee doesn’t know anything. So they help with
everybody I guess.
[Phone starts ringing]
BH: Is that you’re phone—no?
PN: [speaking in Karen]
PNI: It’s a broken phone.
BH: Oh.
[laughs]
PN: [speaking in Karen]
BH: Oh, okay.
PNI: It plays it every morning.
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BH: Okay.
[laughs]
BH: So, do you remember what the name of that church was?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: No, but it’s in Salt Lake. It’s the LDS church.
BH: Okay.
[Baby makes noises]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: It’s around 300 East.
BH: Okay, in Salt Lake City?
PNI: Yeah, in Salt Lake City.
BH: Okay.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: I think until today, they’re still helping people who are other refugees.
BH: Okay. Let me see.
[baby makes noises]
BH: So, you mentioned that here in Logan, your husband has a job? What work does
he do?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
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PNI: He works at JBS. He cuts meat. That’s what he does – JBS, yeah.
BH: Okay. And I think—so you mentioned in the refugee camps, your husband would
have to leave the camp to work? Was there like a specific job that he had? Or was
he leaving the camp to find a job?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yeah, he had to look for work, you know, in the refugee camp – outside of
refugee camp, I mean.
BH: Wow.
PN: [responding in Karen]
[Baby shakes toy]
[43:38]
PNI: Yeah, it just really depends on the day. So, one day you find a job, then you get
paid. One day, if you can’t find a job, then you don’t get paid.
BH: So what kinds of jobs could be found in that way? What sorts of work could he
find?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Well, if it’s around May, then he would work as a, like in a cornfield, where he
has some kind of corn.
BH: Kind of seasonal—
PN: Yes
PNI: Yes, depends on –
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BH: Whatever was available? Those kinds of things.
PNI: Yeah.
BH: Okay. Let’s see. Is there anything that you wish that the people of Logan knew
about you or your family? Or kind of your culture in general?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Well, I guess I don’t know, you know because, my family we’re from refugees,
you know, and we didn’t know about America a lot. And today we still don’t
know a lot about Americans I guess. We just kind of need help, you know. That’s
basically what she just said.
BH: Okay, so it’d be good if we could all find a way maybe to learn more about each
other, yeah?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yeah, sometimes, I don’t know, if we’re in trouble or something – we just don’t
know what to do. We just kind of need a guide, I guess.
PN: [responding in Karen]
[47:17]
PNI: Yeah, we’re just kind of a little scared and don’t understand a lot here, so it would
be nice just to get help.
BH: Okay, I think I have – I have one more question. Do you think you will ever go
back to Burma, to Karen State?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
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PNI: Yeah, I guess I would want to go back and visit Burma, but I’m not a hundred
percent sure if I want to go back and live there permanently, you know. Yeah, I
just don’t have any plans yet for that.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: At the same time, I’m not a hundred percent sure if I want to live in the United
States forever either. So yeah, I’m just not planning yet.
BH: Mm-hmm.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: And the other reason for me to be staying here is for my children. They have a
better education here.
BH: I guess just one question going off of that – do you think you would ever want
your son here, who was born in America, do you think you would want him to see
the land where you came from and know that people and that language?
BHI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: Yeah, like I said, I grew up as a refugee, and I wanted to go back to school but I
couldn’t. But now I’m here in United States. I want to give my children the
opportunity to go to school here, graduate, you know – have a better education
here. After then, I would like them to go back to Burma and help out other people
you know, to tell them what they learned; to give back to the people in Burma.
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: For me, I want to help my people you know, but I can’t. I know I can’t. But for
my children, yeah, sure they can one day.
BH: Well thank you. I think that’s all of my questions, but I want to see if either Wes
or Meagan – if they have any questions they’d like to ask, if that’s okay?
PN: Okay, I have a lot of time.
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BH: See, your English is good!
[51:19]
WV: I guess I was kind of curious, if you’re not LDS – and I notice you have a picture
of the Logan temple up on the wall – what is your religious background if you’re
not LDS?
WVI: [repeating question in Karen]
PN: [responding in Karen]
PNI: [speaking in Karen]
PN: [speaking in Karen]
PNI: Well, back to the refugee camp, I was Buddhist. My whole family was Buddhist.
But here, me, my husband and –
[speaks in Karen]
– and my oldest daughter, us three – we converted to LDS.
WV: Okay
BH: Okay
PNI: We already have, yeah.
PN: [speaking in Karen]
PNI: So I guess there are like four more left in my family, still isn’t LDS.
PN: [speaks in Karen]
PNI: Well, what I want to say is that it all depends on my daughters I guess. It doesn’t
matter what religions they choose. It’s all up to them. We don’t have any
objection to anything.
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PN: [speaks in Karen]
PNI: For me, I chose it myself, to become LDS. It was my decision.
BH: Okay, any other questions? No? Well thank you. So I think that’s the end of our
interview. It is, it’s 11:58 AM, I don’t know if I mentioned, the starting time was
about 11:04 or 11:05. So thank you, Pyo Nwe, and your little son. So, thanks to
both of you.
PN: [laughs, responds in Karen]
[53:28]]]> Pyo Nwe, 1978]]> Gill, Meagan]]> Chit Moe]]> Digitized by : Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library]]> Hanks, Bethany, 1989]]> Hanks, Bethany, 1989]]> transcripts;]]> application/pdf]]> 170153 Bytes]]> eng; kar]]> Text;]]> Burma (Karen State); Thailand (Mela Camp); Salt Lake City (Utah); Logan (Utah);]]>